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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Green Cochoa] #147353
11/23/12 07:09 PM
11/23/12 07:09 PM
APL  Offline
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Well Green, you have come up with a new teaching which I have never heard, and which I do not think fits the Biblical record. We do find "The sons of Arron" in later history.

1 Chronicles 23:27-28 For by the last words of David the Levites were numbered from twenty years old and above: 28 Because their office was to wait on the sons of Aaron for the service of the house of the LORD, in the courts, and in the chambers, and in the purifying of all holy things, and the work of the service of the house of God;.

Since the Temple furniture would no longer need to be carried about, the Levites would not be needed for that type of service, but they would henceforth minister in the permanent sanctuary, with the priests, but in subordinate positions. See also 1 Chronicles 25:1-7 for some of the rolls of the Levites in music. And 1 Chronicles 26:12, 20, 29-31.

1 Chronicles 25:1-7
1 Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals: and the number of the workmen according to their service was:
2 Of the sons of Asaph; Zaccur, and Joseph, and Nethaniah, and Asarelah, the sons of Asaph under the hands of Asaph, which prophesied according to the order of the king.
3 Of Jeduthun: the sons of Jeduthun; Gedaliah, and Zeri, and Jeshaiah, Hashabiah, and Mattithiah, six, under the hands of their father Jeduthun, who prophesied with a harp, to give thanks and to praise the LORD.
4 Of Heman: the sons of Heman; Bukkiah, Mattaniah, Uzziel, Shebuel, and Jerimoth, Hananiah, Hanani, Eliathah, Giddalti, and Romamtiezer, Joshbekashah, Mallothi, Hothir, and Mahazioth:
5 All these were the sons of Heman the king's seer in the words of God, to lift up the horn. And God gave to Heman fourteen sons and three daughters.
6 All these were under the hands of their father for song in the house of the LORD, with cymbals, psalteries, and harps, for the service of the house of God, according to the king's order to Asaph, Jeduthun, and Heman.
7 So the number of them, with their brethren that were instructed in the songs of the LORD, even all that were cunning, was two hundred fourscore and eight.

1 Chronicles 26:20
20 And of the Levites, Ahijah was over the treasures of the house of God, and over the treasures of the dedicated things.

1 Chronicles 26:29-31
29 Of the Izharites, Chenaniah and his sons were for the outward business over Israel, for officers and judges.
30 And of the Hebronites, Hashabiah and his brethren, men of valour, a thousand and seven hundred, were officers among them of Israel on this side Jordan westward in all the business of the LORD, and in the service of the king.
31 Among the Hebronites was Jerijah the chief, even among the Hebronites, according to the generations of his fathers. In the fortieth year of the reign of David they were sought for, and there were found among them mighty men of valour at Jazer of Gilead.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Green Cochoa] #147354
11/23/12 07:42 PM
11/23/12 07:42 PM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: The Bible
Numbers
3:2 And these [are] the names of the sons of Aaron; Nadab the firstborn, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.
3:3 These [are] the names of the sons of Aaron, the priests which were anointed, whom he consecrated to minister in the priest's office.
3:4 And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father.
3:5 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
3:6 Bring the tribe of Levi near, and present them before Aaron the priest, that they may minister unto him.
3:7 And they shall keep his charge, and the charge of the whole congregation before the tabernacle of the congregation, to do the service of the tabernacle.
3:8 And they shall keep all the instruments of the tabernacle of the congregation, and the charge of the children of Israel, to do the service of the tabernacle.
3:9 And thou shalt give the Levites unto Aaron and to his sons: they [are] wholly given unto him out of the children of Israel.


This appears to be the reason why, ever afterward, the Word of God speaks of "Levites" and we don't see the term "Aaronites." From this point on it seems any member of the tribe of Levi was ordained to minister in the sanctuary.

We can guess at the reasons God did this, but since the Bible itself says that neither Nadab nor Abihu had any children when they died, and since Nadab was the eldest of Aaron's sons, it may well have been that the younger two sons were not married or had no sons either to help them minister in the sanctuary. It seems they needed more help.

They were ministers, but I don't think they were all ordained priests.

More from Numbers 3:
Quote:
17 And these were the sons of Levi by their names; Gershon, and Kohath, and Merari.
23 The families of the Gershonites shall pitch behind the tabernacle westward.
25 And the charge of the sons of Gershon in the tabernacle of the congregation shall be the tabernacle, and the tent, the covering thereof, and the hanging for the door of the tabernacle of the congregation,
26 And the hangings of the court, and the curtain for the door of the court, which is by the tabernacle, and by the altar round about, and the cords of it for all the service thereof.
29 The families of the sons of Kohath shall pitch on the side of the tabernacle southward.
31 And their [Kohathites] charge shall be the ark, and the table, and the candlestick, and the altars, and the vessels of the sanctuary wherewith they minister, and the hanging, and all the service thereof.
32 And Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest shall be chief over the chief of the Levites, and have the oversight of them that keep the charge of the sanctuary.
35 And the chief of the house of the father of the families of Merari was Zuriel the son of Abihail: these shall pitch on the side of the tabernacle northward.
36 And under the custody and charge of the sons of Merari shall be the boards of the tabernacle, and the bars thereof, and the pillars thereof, and the sockets thereof, and all the vessels thereof, and all that serveth thereto,
37 And the pillars of the court round about, and their sockets, and their pins, and their cords.
38 But those that encamp before the tabernacle toward the east, even before the tabernacle of the congregation eastward, shall be Moses, and Aaron and his sons, keeping the charge of the sanctuary for the charge of the children of Israel; and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

We find that the Levites - Gershon, Kohath, Merari - ministered in the sanctuary, but they were distinct from the sons of Aaron. They camped on their own sides of the tabernacle, apart from the sons of Aaron. But they ministered in the other work of the sanctuary.

Later in the Bible we find that God still reserved the priesthood to Aaron and his sons, distinct from the Levites.

Quote:
Numbers 10:8
And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for ever throughout your generations.

Numbers 18:1
And the LORD said unto Aaron, Thou and thy sons and thy father's house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood.

Joshua 21:19
All the cities of the children of Aaron, the priests, were thirteen cities with their suburbs.

2 Chronicles 35:14
And afterward they made ready for themselves, and for the priests: because the priests the sons of Aaron were busied in offering of burnt offerings and the fat until night; therefore the Levites prepared for themselves, and for the priests the sons of Aaron.

In David's time, there was still a distinction between the sons of Aaron and the other Levites. They still knew who came from Eleazar and Ithamar.

From 1 Chronicles 24:
Quote:
24 Now these are the divisions of the sons of Aaron. The sons of Aaron; Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.
2 But Nadab and Abihu died before their father, and had no children: therefore Eleazar and Ithamar executed the priest's office.
3 And David distributed them, both Zadok of the sons of Eleazar, and Ahimelech of the sons of Ithamar, according to their offices in their service.
4 And there were more chief men found of the sons of Eleazar than of the sons of Ithamar, and thus were they divided. Among the sons of Eleazar there were sixteen chief men of the house of their fathers, and eight among the sons of Ithamar according to the house of their fathers.
5 Thus were they divided by lot, one sort with another; for the governors of the sanctuary, and governors of the house of God, were of the sons of Eleazar, and of the sons of Ithamar.
19 These were the orderings of them in their service to come into the house of the Lord, according to their manner, under Aaron their father, as the Lord God of Israel had commanded him.

Last edited by asygo; 11/24/12 01:05 AM.

By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: asygo] #147355
11/23/12 07:44 PM
11/23/12 07:44 PM
asygo  Offline
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It looks like APL found other verses while I was putting mine together.

Which begs the question: What's up with Samuel?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: asygo] #147357
11/23/12 08:34 PM
11/23/12 08:34 PM
APL  Offline
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Psalms 99:6 Moses and Aaron among his priests, and Samuel among them that call on his name; they called on the LORD, and he answered them.

Moses was not a son of Aaron either! But was considered a priest. Moses was chosen of God, and spoke with God, "face to face". Samuel, it appears by the circumstances of his birth, and "adoption" by Eli, became a priest also. Samuel in the same class as Moses by Jeremiah, see Jeremiah 15:1.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: APL] #147359
11/23/12 09:18 PM
11/23/12 09:18 PM
asygo  Offline
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Moses was not a priest. He was the leader, but not a priest.

Perhaps that example, from the best model of a theocracy that we have, should give us something to think about. Priesthood and leadership don't necessarily go together. Even the law, which required the priests come from Aaron and the kings come from Judah, separated them. Why do we require them together for our leaders today?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: asygo] #147362
11/23/12 10:49 PM
11/23/12 10:49 PM
Johann  Offline
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It appears to me that the problems is one we create. Moses and Aaron were brothers, same mother, same father, right? That made both of them Levites. God chose Aaron to be the father of the priests, and not Moses. Theirs was a peculiar priesthood service, which made them butchers as well. They were to slaughter all of the animals, and yet this was a special sacrificial service.

Roman Catholic priests are taught that they are performing the same sacrificial service in the Mass. What does this show us?

Are our pastors/evangelists in our church performing a similar service in our preaching? Are we to be compared to the services of the Roman Catholic priest, the Jewish priest - or the work of a prophet?

Last edited by Johann; 11/23/12 10:52 PM.

"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Johann] #147367
11/24/12 12:00 AM
11/24/12 12:00 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Thank you all for your participation. I'm enjoying this and learning new things...this is great.

APL and Arnold, you've found some interesting things. It does appear that the primary priesthood was limited to the sons of Aaron, even after Nadab and Abihu died. I hadn't seen it that way before. At least, there does appear to be some evidence to both sides of that question. The rest of the tribe of Levi were given some responsibilities, and it is unclear exactly where the line was drawn with that--but very interesting how they were each positioned around the sanctuary. You have brought out some fascinating details that I had never noticed.

Regarding Samuel, it is clear from other accounts in the Bible that anyone not qualified to be a priest would not have been permitted to serve as one. The Bible does not indicate this, but perhaps Samuel's mother was descended from Aaron. The Bible only gives Elkhanah's lineage, and omits that of Hannah. This is normal. Matriarchal lineages are not usually given. Even in Jesus' case, when Mary's lineage is given it is attributed instead to Joseph, being the male in the patriarchal system. (See the genealogies in Matthew and Luke.)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: APL] #147369
11/24/12 12:19 AM
11/24/12 12:19 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: APL
Psalms 99:6 Moses and Aaron among his priests, and Samuel among them that call on his name; they called on the LORD, and he answered them.

Moses was not a son of Aaron either! But was considered a priest. Moses was chosen of God, and spoke with God, "face to face". Samuel, it appears by the circumstances of his birth, and "adoption" by Eli, became a priest also. Samuel in the same class as Moses by Jeremiah, see Jeremiah 15:1.

It seems Arnold is correct in that Moses was not a priest; however, Moses did have the God-ordained task of consecrating Aaron and his sons to the priesthood (see e.g. Exodus 40).

That verse in the Psalms might read better with adjustments to the punctuation. Probably the translator(s) didn't pay attention to correlation with prior passages that would have made the roles distinct. A simple comma added would change the meaning for English readers.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Green Cochoa] #147371
11/24/12 12:23 AM
11/24/12 12:23 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Johann
Theirs was a peculiar priesthood service, which made them butchers as well. They were to slaughter all of the animals, and yet this was a special sacrificial service.

I don't believe this part is supported in the Bible.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Green Cochoa] #147377
11/24/12 12:59 AM
11/24/12 12:59 AM
asygo  Offline
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IIRC, both sinner and priest participated intimately in the slaughter and butchering of the animals. Can't look it up now.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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