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Pope confess that Jesus not born Dec 25th-- is pagan, birth year and calendar not correct, and .... #147542
11/27/12 01:36 AM
11/27/12 01:36 AM
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Elle  Offline OP
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Below is the links CNN and telegraph news about the Pope’s confession. I extracted some quotes below. For sure we can find some errors in the Pope’s new book Jesus of Nazareth -- The Infancy Narratives; despite of them, overall he has made many major confessions public about the date of Christ birth both in year and in day/month, December 25th is pagan, and how the current calendar was created and in error, and etc….

This is major news event.

CNN : Pope's book on Jesus challenges Christmas traditions

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/22/world/europe/vatican-pope-jesus-book/index.html

In "Jesus of Nazareth -- The Infancy Narratives," the pope says the Christian calendar is actually based on a blunder by a sixth century monk, who Benedict says was several years off in his calculation of Jesus' birth date.



The pope also looks at scholarly studies of the Bible, some of which have indicated for decades that the traditionally accepted birth date for Jesus is wrong, Speciale said.



The 176-page volume, which comprises a brief foreword, four chapters and an epilogue, traces Jesus' life up to the age of 12, when, according to the Gospels, he was presented by his parents in the Temple in Jerusalem, the Vatican said.

The initial worldwide print run is more than a million copies, it said, with the book released this week across 50 countries in Italian, German, Croatian, French, English, Polish, Portuguese and Spanish.

In the coming months, the book will be translated into 12 more languages for publication in 72 countries in total, the Vatican added.

The Vatican quotes Anthony Valle, a professor of theology, as saying the pope has been open to scientific inquiry in his own study of Jesus' life.

------------------------------------------------------
Jesus was born years earlier than thoughts, claims Pope

By Nick Squires, Rome
4:02PM GMT 21 Nov 2012

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion...laims-Pope.html

The entire Christian calendar is based on a miscalculation, the Pope has declared, as he claims in a new book that Jesus was born several years earlier than commonly believed.

The 'mistake' was made by a sixth century monk known as Dionysius Exiguus or in English Dennis the Small, the 85-year-old pontiff claims in the book 'Jesus of Nazareth: The Infancy Narratives', published on Wednesday.
"The calculation of the beginning of our calendar – based on the birth of Jesus – was made by Dionysius Exiguus, who made a mistake in his calculations by several years," the Pope writes in the book, which went on sale around the world with an initial print run of a million copies.
"The actual date of Jesus's birth was several years before."
The assertion that the Christian calendar is based on a false premise is not new – many historians believe that Christ was born sometime between 7BC and 2BC.

Dennis the Small, who was born in Eastern Europe, is credited with being the "inventor" of the modern calendar and the concept of the Anno Domini era.
He drew up the new system in part to distance it from the calendar in use at the time, which was based on the years since the reign of the Roman emperor Diocletian.
The emperor had persecuted Christians, so there was good reason to expunge him from the new dating system in favour of one inspired by the birth of Christ.
The monk's calendar became widely accepted in Europe after it was adopted by the Venerable Bede, the historian-monk, to date the events that he recounted in his Ecclesiastical History of the English People, which he completed in AD 731.
But exactly how Dennis calculated the year of Christ's birth is not clear and the Pope's claim that he made a mistake is a view shared by many scholars.
The Bible does not specify a date for the birth of Christ. The monk instead appears to have based his calculations on vague references to Jesus's age at the start of his ministry and the fact that he was baptised in the reign of the emperor Tiberius.

"There is no reference to when he was born in the Bible - all we know is that he was born in the reign of Herod the Great, who died before 1AD," he told The Daily Telegraph. "It's been surmised for a very long time that Jesus was born before 1AD - no one knows for sure."
The idea that Christ was born on Dec 25 also has no basis in historical fact. "We don't even know which season he was born in. The whole idea of celebrating his birth during the darkest part of the year is probably linked to pagan traditions and the winter solstice."




Blessings
Re: Pope confess that Jesus not born Dec 25th-- is pagan, birth year and calendar not correct, and .... [Re: Elle] #147795
12/02/12 03:16 AM
12/02/12 03:16 AM
dedication  Online Content
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The Biblical narratives give enough names of historical characters that scholars have long realized Jesus was born before 1 A.D. It lines up pretty much with Jesus being born about 4 B.C. and baptized about 27 A.D. at the age of 30.

As to the Dec. 25 -- that is a pagan date.
But then paganism has counterfeited the whole idea of the virgin birth for centuries etc. so that is not proof refuting information on Jesus birth.


There is a mathematical way to try to understand when Jesus was born.

Zacharius (John the Baptist's father) was serving in the temple during the course of Abia. (Luke 1:5) He is told by an angel that his wife would have a son. (1:13) Elizabeth conceives shortly after. (1:24) Six months later the angel tells Mary she will conceive. (1:26,36) Mary stays with Elizabeth for three months till John is born. (1:56) Jesus is born six months after John the Baptist.

So when was Zacharias in the temple?
Well there are TWO possibilities.

The priests of the 8th course of Abia served in the 10th week (end of May/June) as well as the 34th week (late Sept/Oct). So adding at least two weeks for conception to occur John was probably born either in March (around Passover time) OR early in July.

Add six months to that would place Jesus birth either in
September (the seventh month of the Jewish calendar) OR late December (about the time the world celebrates Christ's birth.)

Church tradition rather consistantly favors the latter date.
Saying the angel appeared to Zacharias during Yom Kippur (Sept/Oct) and John was born in the month of Tammuz (June/July) placing Jesus birth on the 9th of Tevet (end of December)

Re: Pope confess that Jesus not born Dec 25th-- is pagan, birth year and calendar not correct, and .... [Re: dedication] #147838
12/03/12 03:10 PM
12/03/12 03:10 PM
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kland  Offline
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Tradition?


But what about the shepherds and sheep?

Re: Pope confess that Jesus not born Dec 25th-- is pagan, birth year and calendar not correct, and .... [Re: kland] #147860
12/03/12 07:39 PM
12/03/12 07:39 PM
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Elle  Offline OP
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Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
Tradition?

But what about the shepherds and sheep?

But what about the Pope's confessing this? Isn't it out of character? Wouldn't we expect that the RC would keep this continually hidden?

Isnt' this huge? It has an impact on the biggest holiday celebrated in most parts in the world -- PLUS on the calendar -- PLUS the exposure that the RC hid this from us for centuries.


Blessings
Re: Pope confess that Jesus not born Dec 25th-- is pagan, birth year and calendar not correct, and .... [Re: kland] #147874
12/04/12 05:37 AM
12/04/12 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: kland
Tradition?


But what about the shepherds and sheep?


What about the shepherds?
They were watching the sheep.

That's one of the most interesting parts.

Micah, the Jewish prophet who foretold the Messiah's birth in Bethlehem, also prophesied, "And you, O Tower of the Flock (in Hebrew, Migdal Eder), the stronghold of the daughter of Zion, unto you shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem" (Micah 4:8).

So here Micah foretells that the Messiah, who embodied the hope of the Kingdom, "was to be revealed from Migdal Eder - 'the Tower of the Flock'."

Close by where the Bethlehem shepherds were that night was the tower known as Migdal Eder, the "watch-tower of the flock." This was the station where shepherds brought their flocks destined for sacrifices in the Temple.
The shepherds who kept them were men who were specifically trained to take care of these lambs destined for sacrifice.
Jesus, the lamb of God, was born in Bethlehem, the area where the sacrificial lambs were raised!

It's also interesting (if you do a little research) that around bethlehem, the shepherds did watch their sheep at night in the "winter" months. It was in what we call winter when the rains came and the hills turned green affording good grass for the sheep on otherwise desert like hills. The shepherds took the sheep out to the hills and being too far from town would not return to the fold, but watch them at night.

Re: Pope confess that Jesus not born Dec 25th-- is pagan, birth year and calendar not correct, and .... [Re: Elle] #147876
12/04/12 05:47 AM
12/04/12 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: Elle

But what about the Pope's confessing this? Isn't it out of character? Wouldn't we expect that the RC would keep this continually hidden? Isnt' this huge? It has an impact on the biggest holiday celebrated in most parts in the world -- PLUS on the calendar -- PLUS the exposure that the RC hid this from us for centuries.


I'd be more surprised if the pope insisted that Christ was born between 1 BC and 1 A.D.
All historians I've read agree that the Historical evidence points to Christ being born a few years earlier.

Re: Pope confess that Jesus not born Dec 25th-- is pagan, birth year and calendar not correct, and .... [Re: Elle] #147894
12/04/12 03:45 PM
12/04/12 03:45 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: kland
Tradition?

But what about the shepherds and sheep?

But what about the Pope's confessing this? Isn't it out of character? Wouldn't we expect that the RC would keep this continually hidden?

Isnt' this huge? It has an impact on the biggest holiday celebrated in most parts in the world -- PLUS on the calendar -- PLUS the exposure that the RC hid this from us for centuries.
_|_, if the papacy blatantly acknowledges sunday isn't the Sabbath and they have the power to change it, what's any big deal over christmas?

Re: Pope confess that Jesus not born Dec 25th-- is pagan, birth year and calendar not correct, and .... [Re: dedication] #147896
12/04/12 03:48 PM
12/04/12 03:48 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
It's also interesting (if you do a little research) that around bethlehem, the shepherds did watch their sheep at night in the "winter" months. It was in what we call winter when the rains came and the hills turned green affording good grass for the sheep on otherwise desert like hills. The shepherds took the sheep out to the hills and being too far from town would not return to the fold, but watch them at night.
Is that true? Do sheep roam the fields at night eating grass there at the end of December today?

Re: Pope confess that Jesus not born Dec 25th-- is pagan, birth year and calendar not correct, and .... [Re: kland] #147916
12/04/12 07:12 PM
12/04/12 07:12 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Quote:
Is that true? Do sheep roam the fields at night eating grass there at the end of December today?
Is the tower of Migdal Eder still there today?
Are there special flocks raised for temple sacrifice there today?
Can we impose average modern practices on ancient times?


Since Luke 2:8 says shepherds were in fields at Christ’s birth, some assume Christ wasn’t born in December. However, this objection is without merit as some have indictated that Jewish Mishnah indicts that flocks were kept in fields near Bethlehem even in the winter. The shepherds "Abiding in the field" (KJV) is the Greek verb agrauleo, "live out of doors."

Take a thoughtful look at this study:
http://bible-truth.org/BirthPlaceofJesus.html

A study of Jewish history is bringing out a very interesting revelation concerning the birth place of our Savior.
There was actually a tower, named in Micah's prophecy, which stood north of Bethlehem and about 4 miles south of Jerusalem where the sacrificial lambs were born and cared for. The sheep were kept outside year round, the ewes being brought into the tower only for birthing.

Re: Pope confess that Jesus not born Dec 25th-- is pagan, birth year and calendar not correct, and .... [Re: dedication] #148302
12/21/12 03:27 PM
12/21/12 03:27 PM
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kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,436
Midland
Originally Posted By: dedication
It's also interesting (if you do a little research) that around bethlehem, the shepherds did watch their sheep at night in the "winter" months. It was in what we call winter when the rains came and the hills turned green affording good grass for the sheep on otherwise desert like hills. The shepherds took the sheep out to the hills and being too far from town would not return to the fold, but watch them at night.


Originally Posted By: dedication
Can we impose average modern practices on ancient times?
True. Flocks of sheep may not roam in the heart of New York city today, but that doesn't mean they didn't at that location in the past.

So, maybe I should have asked, regarding the climate and not modern practices, could sheep roam the fields at night eating grass there at the end of December? Is it possible?

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