Whether the 24 elders has been refuted is one thing. But another is the sons of God in Job. Have sons of God ever been used to refer to angels?

I think the term "sons of God" could be applied to any of God's intelligent creatures, but, in fact, I haven't yet seen the term applied to the inhabitants of other worlds. According to the Hebrew parallelism, it would be natural to interpret "morning stars" and "sons of God" as synonyms, and "star" is a symbol used to describe angels in other biblical passages.

EGW says the angels are sons of God (ST, May 30, 1895 par. 3).

Specifically about Job 38:7, she says:

Before the creation of man, angels were in existence; for when the foundations of the earth were laid, “the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.” Job 38:7. {TA 9.2}

Angelic agencies, though invisible, are cooperating with visible human agencies, forming a relief association with men. ... The very angels who shouted for joy over the creation of our world and over the creation of our first parents to inhabit the earth, ... these very heavenly messengers are most intensely interested to work in union with the fallen, redeemed race for the salvation of human beings perishing in their sins. {HP 102.3}

At the creation, when the foundations of the earth were laid, the sons of God looked with admiration upon the work of the Creator, and all the heavenly host shouted for joy. It was then that the foundation of the Sabbath was laid. {EW 217.2}

I think this is a very valid question which I am not able to define yet. It seems like a problem that Ellen White uses the term "angel" where it appears like John uses the term "elder".

The fundamentalist understanding of inspiration which believes that God dictates the very words that the prophet writes down requires a definition like what Stephen Bohr presents.

This is not fully in agreement with the definition of Ellen White herself on inspiration. She makes it clear that it is not the words that are inspired, but the prophet who makes use of whatever words in his/her vocabulary to describe the message given by God.

Does this complicate things for us?

Was EGW using the term "angel" in the meaning "messenger" when she used that term here?

On several occasions when she saw heavenly things in vision she had an angelic guide to describe things for her. Is this what she is referring to here? Does she have her guide, who was an angel in mind?

It seems to me that Stephen Bohr should have followed the explicit words of Ellen White not to jump to a private interpretation of his own without consulting with other seasoned Bible students. But he seems to count on the power of TV and a private financial backing to support his salesmanship of new ideas.

That the 24 elders are angels is NOT stephen Bohr's original conclusion. Like I mentioned in my post on the page before this one -- HE CHANGED his webpage.

This is what he taught before:


1.The morning stars and sons of God existed BEFORE creation. See Job 38:4-7

It is the stars that are angels Rev.12:4,9 (Satan take 1/3 of the stars defined as angels)

The sons of God are kings of their planets - worlds Job 1:6-7

From these verses we know that the sons of God
--1.Do not always live where God is (they had to come)
--2.Satan came along with them showing he is their peer or contemporary
--3.Satan came representing planet earth (implying the sons of God represent other planets)

2.Satan was among the sons of God because he believed the earth was given to him (Luke 4:5-6)
When Adam obeyed Satan, Satan became his master and Adam his slave (Romans 6:16)

3.The universe is ruled by a council. , Daniel 7:9-10; Revelation 4:1-7 (use NKJV)

4.Adam is an original son of God (Luke 3:38, Patriarchs & Prophets page 45)

Adam sold out his position as the "son of God" at the head of the human race. (Luke 3:38)
1 Cor. 15:21-22


But Christ came to reclaim that inheritance -- and now Christ stands at the head of the human race, and through HIM the human race (those Who accept Christ as their head) will see the earth once more restored.
Christ, in human flesh, passed over the ground victorious, where Adam fell.

Here was what was involved in Adam’s disobedience and what the obedience of the Son of God means to us.

You're going to have to help me there....

That sounds like a reasonable conclusion. However, this would rely on the assumption that the morning stars ONLY sang together and all the sons of God ONLY shouted for joy. Can sons of God include both angels and other worlds?

Ok, how does that tell you anything about who they are? Can heavenly host include more than angels? I think so.

But:
Yet again other worlds are watching:

If we go with exclusive, then would this mean other worlds do not and will not observe the Sabbath?

I've found a passage in which EGW refers to the "sons of God" of Job 1 as angels:

The Scriptures declare that upon one occasion, when the angels of God came to present themselves before the Lord, Satan came also among them (Job 1:6), not to bow before the Eternal King, but to further his own malicious designs against the righteous. With the same object he is in attendance when men assemble for the worship of God. {DD 5.4}

I may be missing something, but I read in my Bible that the 24 elders state that they will reign as priests and kings on Earth. Rev.5:10.

Where in this picture is the Archangel Michael?

Not unimportant, Harold.