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Re: Who Are The 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4? [Re: Rosangela] #149414
02/04/13 10:56 PM
02/04/13 10:56 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Pastor Johann, I have the utmost respect and admiration for men like you, who have dedicated their whole lives to the service of God. But, as I said, we do not all see eye to eye, so please forgive me if I at some moment disagree with something you say. Having worked for some time at a White Estate branch, and having verified the differing views of our pioneers and of Ellen White on some subjects, my view is that, when what they say diffes from what she says, I stay with what she says.


And so do I, in case you missed it.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Who Are The 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4? [Re: Rosangela] #149418
02/05/13 04:30 AM
02/05/13 04:30 AM
D
dedication  Online Content

Global Moderator
5000+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,001
Canada
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Originally Posted By: kland
Well, it does throw some issues Rosangela's way....

Angels are created beings.
Christ is an Arch angel.
Therefore, Christ must be a created being.

I'm not following you, kland. In the Bible, both in the OT and in the NT, the meaning of the word translated as "angel" is "messenger." So Jesus Christ is the Chief Messenger. Why does He have to be a created being?


Christ is not a created being.
He is the Divine commander of the angelic hosts.
Yes, He is the chief Messenger, the Word, TO all the created intelligent beings.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," John 1:1

But now --
wasn't the elder that spoke to John also a messenger?

Kland's rather "tongue in check" comments stirs the thought that --
Christ is called an Archangel, but He is NOT one of created heavenly angels.
The elder is called a strong angel -- a strong messenger? or one of the heavenly angels?

Re: Who Are The 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4? [Re: dedication] #149419
02/05/13 05:41 AM
02/05/13 05:41 AM
D
dedication  Online Content

Global Moderator
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,001
Canada
"When Jesus, as he hung upon the cross, cried out, It is finished, the rocks rent, the earth shook, and some of the graves where shaken open; for when Jesus arose from the dead,... many of the righteous dead came forth as witnesses that he had risen. Those favored, resurrected saints came forth glorified. They were a few chosen and holy ones who had lived in every age from creation, even down to the days of Christ.
" Those who were resurrected were of different stature and form....Some of those raised were more noble in appearance and form than others. I was informed that those who lived in the days of Noah and Abraham were more like the angels in form, in comeliness and strength." {Spiritual Gifts Vol. 1 pages 69-70}

Re: Who Are The 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4? [Re: dedication] #149420
02/05/13 07:54 AM
02/05/13 07:54 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: dedication
"When Jesus, as he hung upon the cross, cried out, It is finished, the rocks rent, the earth shook, and some of the graves where shaken open; for when Jesus arose from the dead,... many of the righteous dead came forth as witnesses that he had risen. Those favored, resurrected saints came forth glorified. They were a few chosen and holy ones who had lived in every age from creation, even down to the days of Christ.
" Those who were resurrected were of different stature and form....Some of those raised were more noble in appearance and form than others. I was informed that those who lived in the days of Noah and Abraham were more like the angels in form, in comeliness and strength." {Spiritual Gifts Vol. 1 pages 69-70}


Any wonder that Ellen White could call that elder an engel?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Who Are The 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4? [Re: Johann] #149432
02/05/13 02:38 PM
02/05/13 02:38 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Can we therefore safely discard those novel ideas of Stephen Bohr?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Who Are The 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4? [Re: dedication] #149464
02/06/13 04:44 PM
02/06/13 04:44 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,867
Midland
Originally Posted By: dedication
Kland's rather "tongue in check" comments stirs the thought that --
Christ is called an Archangel, but He is NOT one of created heavenly angels.
The elder is called a strong angel -- a strong messenger? or one of the heavenly angels?
That's exactly what I was saying. I didn't think it was unclear, but I guess it was to some.

Re: Who Are The 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4? [Re: Johann] #149465
02/06/13 04:45 PM
02/06/13 04:45 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,867
Midland
Originally Posted By: Johann
Any wonder that Ellen White could call that elder an engel?

Originally Posted By: Johann
Can we therefore safely discard those novel ideas of Stephen Bohr?

Are these two comments not in opposition?

Re: Who Are The 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4? [Re: kland] #149467
02/06/13 06:12 PM
02/06/13 06:12 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Johann
Any wonder that Ellen White could call that elder an engel?

Originally Posted By: Johann
Can we therefore safely discard those novel ideas of Stephen Bohr?

Are these two comments not in opposition?


In my estimation they support each other. You may have missed the point where EGW stated that some of the elders who had lived on earth at the time of the patriarchs had the appearance like angels.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Who Are The 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4? [Re: Johann] #149473
02/07/13 01:09 AM
02/07/13 01:09 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 24,540
Nova Scotia, Canada
It's possible that Stephen Bohr is discarding those ideas himself evidenced by making his video at YouTube private.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Who Are The 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4? [Re: Johann] #149488
02/08/13 03:44 PM
02/08/13 03:44 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,867
Midland
Originally Posted By: Johann
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Johann
Any wonder that Ellen White could call that elder an engel?

Originally Posted By: Johann
Can we therefore safely discard those novel ideas of Stephen Bohr?

Are these two comments not in opposition?


In my estimation they support each other. You may have missed the point where EGW stated that some of the elders who had lived on earth at the time of the patriarchs had the appearance like angels.
People can have the appearance like angels.
I thought Bohr was saying the elders were people of other planets.
What am I missing?

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