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Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: Elle] #150241
03/02/13 02:15 AM
03/02/13 02:15 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
Yes, the Bible is very clear on the issue, but opposite to what you are saying here.

Where do you come up with all this type of stuff???
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder

So if you need me to unpack this for you JAK, and Elle, Jesus is saying that we are like the angels in the second life not having sexual relations, which is to say the ANGELS DO NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS and He was warning everyone who would believe that garbage that they are like the Sadducees.

Angels in obedience having spiritual bodies in heavens, does not marry, however it is a different story for angels that has left their heavenly abode and came on earth manifested as men and disobeyed the Lord's command to not marry. That's why Peter said they had sinned and Jude compares their sins to Sodom and Gomorrah going after 'strange flesh". The Bible is very clear on the issue.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: Daryl] #150244
03/02/13 02:21 AM
03/02/13 02:21 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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"Strange flesh" is opening up a whole new topic.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: Rosangela] #150249
03/02/13 02:37 AM
03/02/13 02:37 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Angels in obedience having spiritual bodies in heavens, does not marry, however it is a different story for angels that has left their heavenly abode and came on earth manifested as men and disobeyed the Lord's command to not marry.

Where does the Bible say that angels received a command to not marry? They don't marry because they aren't physical beings.
Angels (both fallen and unfallen) may assume a human appearance, but they aren't flesh and blood, so they can't procreate.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the world's rulers, of the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in high places (Eph 6:12).



Yes, I would agree. But lets go back a bit and focus on the 'Sons of God' in Job. Would you have any issue with them being like Adam/Seth as SOP says... We know there are other beings on other worlds. I think if we understand the 'Sons of God' on earth and other worlds as those God created, then it resolves many issues....

Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: Rick H] #150255
03/02/13 04:20 AM
03/02/13 04:20 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Brother Rick, check this quote from Patriarchs and Prophets...

'God was to be manifest in Christ, “reconciling the world unto himself.” Human beings had become so degraded by sin that it was impossible for them, in themselves, to come into harmony with Him whose nature is purity and goodness. But Christ, after having redeemed them from the condemnation of the law, could impart divine power to unite with human effort. Thus by repentance toward God and faith in Christ the fallen children of Adam might once more become “sons of God.”Patriarchs and Prophets, 63, 64. {CTr 30.5}

I love how my Lord leads me to the perfect quote. Thank you Father.

Adam was a created son of God until he fell and gave his dominion to the evil one.

The angels are not sons of God. Satan used the love between God and Adam, the son of God as a device to bring pain to the Fathers heart. Jesus became a part of the created Son's of God by becoming a man, so He could fill the position Adam lost, the elder of the Human race. We all get the right to become 'son's of God' by being re-established in communion through Christ.

The pain the Father suffered in the death of His Son was more than we will ever know.

Satan knows way better than we do that in perfection God's heart can be felt by every son of God and ours to Him, he envies this and sets out to destroy the connection. He has done a pretty good job several times in the rise and fall of the church in history and these biblical stories are witnesses to the fabric of it all.

This is the throne of the heart that Satan seeks to sit upon and show himself to be god.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: Green Cochoa] #150256
03/02/13 05:00 AM
03/02/13 05:00 AM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Quote:
The "sons of God" do not act that way, Elle. Those are the fallen angels, and Genesis does not say that it was the fallen ones, but rather the "sons of God" who married the daughters of Cain. Who are the "sons of God"? They are those who are obedient to God's will.

"Sons of God" can be by creation or birth by the Father like Jesus, the angels, and Adam were, or by adoption like the sons of man will become.

It is true, a true son of God will obey. And these fallen angels were in obedience before they fell. However, just because they fell does not negate the fact that they were in obedience before hand and are not pro-created beings and all of them have been created straight from the Lord's hand. Therefore their father is the Lord and these angels are His sons. That physical fact does not change whether they sin or not. Angels are referred as Sons of God in Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7.

Adam is a son of God also for he was created by the Lord. However, all Adams offsprings were born after the fall of Adam. And the Bible is very specific that we are "Sons of men"(23 occurences in the Bible, and 193x for “son of man”).

Any man on earth today or any offsprings of Adam was or cannot be considered as a "son of God". Scripture says that we will become(future) “sons of God” by ADOPTION.(Rm 8:15; 8:23; 9:4; Gal 4:5; Eph 1:5)) That means we are still not “sons of God” nor does any sons of Seth were by Biblical definition.

The beginning of the process of becoming one starts when we are reborn by the Spirit. When we are reborn, it’s only a seed(Jesus) is in us that still needs to grow inside a body that the carnal mind is big and dominant.

There are many different stages of growth by which the types and shadows of the Law describes. The baby stage is symbolically represented by the Passover(justification). The children stage is symbolically represented by Pentecost(the offering of two leavened bread) where we receive only an earnest deposit of the spirit. But full sonship is represented by the Feast of Tabernacle by which the sons will be declared and will receive the full measure of the spirit.

This has not been fulfilled yet. So everyone is at least in the Pentecost level of growth IF they are learning to hear the voice of God for themselves. Most SDAs and other Christians are still in the Passover stage and yet that is questionable. No one will get to the Tabernacle level without going through the Pentecost stage. In that stage we are to hear and learn to differentiate the voice of the Lord apart from ours.

The Bible is very specific and refers to us as “Children of God” because children are not yet Sons until they reach full maturity and have received the fullness of the Spirit.

Also, sonship is not an individual phenomena. Many has died overcomers(through the disciplines of the Lord); however they have to wait for the resurrection to part of “the manisfestation of the sons of God"”. It is a group phenomena, for at that time, the body will be attach(Marriage) to the head(Jesus).

AV Ga 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons

AV Ro 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God…. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

The Bible says we are waiting for the adoption of becoming "sons of God". Rom 8:23 So reality is we are not sons yet, and only have a downpayment of the spirit, still have corruptible body, and was not given immortality yet. The glorified bodily estate that Adam had, no one has it yet and the sons of Seth did not have it either.

That's another Biblical reason why "sons of God" in Gen 6:2 cannot mean that it was talking about the Sons of Seth. This contradicts sound doctrine.


Blessings
Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: Elle] #150264
03/02/13 10:28 AM
03/02/13 10:28 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,118
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Elle
Quote:
The "sons of God" do not act that way, Elle. Those are the fallen angels, and Genesis does not say that it was the fallen ones, but rather the "sons of God" who married the daughters of Cain. Who are the "sons of God"? They are those who are obedient to God's will.

"Sons of God" can be by creation or birth by the Father like Jesus, the angels, and Adam were, or by adoption like the sons of man will become.

It is true, a true son of God will obey. And these fallen angels were in obedience before they fell. However, just because they fell does not negate the fact that they were in obedience before hand and are not pro-created beings and all of them have been created straight from the Lord's hand. Therefore their father is the Lord and these angels are His sons. That physical fact does not change whether they sin or not. Angels are referred as Sons of God in Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7.

Adam is a son of God also for he was created by the Lord. However, all Adams offsprings were born after the fall of Adam. And the Bible is very specific that we are "Sons of men"(23 occurences in the Bible, and 193x for “son of man”).

Any man on earth today or any offsprings of Adam was or cannot be considered as a "son of God". Scripture says that we will become(future) “sons of God” by ADOPTION.(Rm 8:15; 8:23; 9:4; Gal 4:5; Eph 1:5)) That means we are still not “sons of God” nor does any sons of Seth were by Biblical definition.

The beginning of the process of becoming one starts when we are reborn by the Spirit. When we are reborn, it’s only a seed(Jesus) is in us that still needs to grow inside a body that the carnal mind is big and dominant.

There are many different stages of growth by which the types and shadows of the Law describes. The baby stage is symbolically represented by the Passover(justification). The children stage is symbolically represented by Pentecost(the offering of two leavened bread) where we receive only an earnest deposit of the spirit. But full sonship is represented by the Feast of Tabernacle by which the sons will be declared and will receive the full measure of the spirit.

This has not been fulfilled yet. So everyone is at least in the Pentecost level of growth IF they are learning to hear the voice of God for themselves. Most SDAs and other Christians are still in the Passover stage and yet that is questionable. No one will get to the Tabernacle level without going through the Pentecost stage. In that stage we are to hear and learn to differentiate the voice of the Lord apart from ours.

The Bible is very specific and refers to us as “Children of God” because children are not yet Sons until they reach full maturity and have received the fullness of the Spirit.

Also, sonship is not an individual phenomena. Many has died overcomers(through the disciplines of the Lord); however they have to wait for the resurrection to part of “the manisfestation of the sons of God"”. It is a group phenomena, for at that time, the body will be attach(Marriage) to the head(Jesus).

AV Ga 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons

AV Ro 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God…. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

The Bible says we are waiting for the adoption of becoming "sons of God". Rom 8:23 So reality is we are not sons yet, and only have a downpayment of the spirit, still have corruptible body, and was not given immortality yet. The glorified bodily estate that Adam had, no one has it yet and the sons of Seth did not have it either.

That's another Biblical reason why "sons of God" in Gen 6:2 cannot mean that it was talking about the Sons of Seth. This contradicts sound doctrine.


After looking closer at the verses it seems to be more clear who they were, it doesnt use the word for angels, look at Strongs:

Job 1:6 Now there was a day 3117 when the sons1121 of God 430 came 935 to present 3320 themselves before the LORD 3068, and Satan 7854 came 935 also among 8432 them.

Compare to Job's sons....

Job 1:13 And there was a day 3117 when his sons1121 and his daughters 1323 [were] eating 398 and drinking 8354 wine 3196 in their eldest 1060 brother's 251 house 1004:

Same thing in Job 2 and 38:

b 2:1 Again there was a day 3117 when the sons1121 of God 430 came 935 to present 3320 themselves before the LORD 3068, and Satan 7854 came 935 also among 8432 them to present 3320 himself before the LORD 3068.

Job 38:7 When the morning 1242 stars 3556 sang 7442 together 3162, and all the sons1121 of God 430 shouted 7321 for joy?

Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: Rick H] #150274
03/02/13 02:55 PM
03/02/13 02:55 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Originally Posted By: Elle
Quote:
The "sons of God" do not act that way, Elle. Those are the fallen angels, and Genesis does not say that it was the fallen ones, but rather the "sons of God" who married the daughters of Cain. Who are the "sons of God"? They are those who are obedient to God's will.

"Sons of God" can be by creation or birth by the Father like Jesus, the angels, and Adam were, or by adoption like the sons of man will become.

It is true, a true son of God will obey. And these fallen angels were in obedience before they fell. However, just because they fell does not negate the fact that they were in obedience before hand and are not pro-created beings and all of them have been created straight from the Lord's hand. Therefore their father is the Lord and these angels are His sons. That physical fact does not change whether they sin or not. Angels are referred as Sons of God in Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7.

Adam is a son of God also for he was created by the Lord. However, all Adams offsprings were born after the fall of Adam. And the Bible is very specific that we are "Sons of men"(23 occurences in the Bible, and 193x for “son of man”).

Any man on earth today or any offsprings of Adam was or cannot be considered as a "son of God". Scripture says that we will become(future) “sons of God” by ADOPTION.(Rm 8:15; 8:23; 9:4; Gal 4:5; Eph 1:5)) That means we are still not “sons of God” nor does any sons of Seth were by Biblical definition.

The beginning of the process of becoming one starts when we are reborn by the Spirit. When we are reborn, it’s only a seed(Jesus) is in us that still needs to grow inside a body that the carnal mind is big and dominant.

There are many different stages of growth by which the types and shadows of the Law describes. The baby stage is symbolically represented by the Passover(justification). The children stage is symbolically represented by Pentecost(the offering of two leavened bread) where we receive only an earnest deposit of the spirit. But full sonship is represented by the Feast of Tabernacle by which the sons will be declared and will receive the full measure of the spirit.

This has not been fulfilled yet. So everyone is at least in the Pentecost level of growth IF they are learning to hear the voice of God for themselves. Most SDAs and other Christians are still in the Passover stage and yet that is questionable. No one will get to the Tabernacle level without going through the Pentecost stage. In that stage we are to hear and learn to differentiate the voice of the Lord apart from ours.

The Bible is very specific and refers to us as “Children of God” because children are not yet Sons until they reach full maturity and have received the fullness of the Spirit.

Also, sonship is not an individual phenomena. Many has died overcomers(through the disciplines of the Lord); however they have to wait for the resurrection to part of “the manisfestation of the sons of God"”. It is a group phenomena, for at that time, the body will be attach(Marriage) to the head(Jesus).

AV Ga 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons

AV Ro 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God…. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

The Bible says we are waiting for the adoption of becoming "sons of God". Rom 8:23 So reality is we are not sons yet, and only have a downpayment of the spirit, still have corruptible body, and was not given immortality yet. The glorified bodily estate that Adam had, no one has it yet and the sons of Seth did not have it either.

That's another Biblical reason why "sons of God" in Gen 6:2 cannot mean that it was talking about the Sons of Seth. This contradicts sound doctrine.


After looking closer at the verses it seems to be more clear who they were, it doesnt use the word for angels, look at Strongs:

Job 1:6 Now there was a day 3117 when the sons1121 of God 430 came 935 to present 3320 themselves before the LORD 3068, and Satan 7854 came 935 also among 8432 them.

Compare to Job's sons....

Job 1:13 And there was a day 3117 when his sons1121 and his daughters 1323 [were] eating 398 and drinking 8354 wine 3196 in their eldest 1060 brother's 251 house 1004:

Same thing in Job 2 and 38:

b 2:1 Again there was a day 3117 when the sons1121 of God 430 came 935 to present 3320 themselves before the LORD 3068, and Satan 7854 came 935 also among 8432 them to present 3320 himself before the LORD 3068.

Job 38:7 When the morning 1242 stars 3556 sang 7442 together 3162, and all the sons1121 of God 430 shouted 7321 for joy?
??? Sons are a son of some father. The Hebrew word for son is ben(h1121). Their are many sons of man because they were fathered by a man. This is different with someone who was fathered by Elohim himself like Adam, angels and Jesus. That's why they are called "sons of God"(ha-Elohim beni). However Jesus was also identified as a "son of man" for His mother was a daughter of a man.

In Job the context shows that these individuals where angels which were identified as "sons of God" especially Job 38.

Then we have strong confirmation of Gen 6:2 being angels by Jude and Peter who refers to these fallen angels that have left their abode(heaven) and have sinned relating it to the sins of Sodom and Gomorrh.


Blessings
Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: Elle] #150279
03/02/13 04:33 PM
03/02/13 04:33 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
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You have yet to demonstrate any text of the Bible that applies the phrase "sons of God" to FALLEN angels. To holy beings, yes. To saints of God, yes. To the righteous, yes. To the wicked, never.

Jesus was the only "son of God" begotten by God. The rest are sons by identification/adoption.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: Green Cochoa] #150281
03/02/13 06:06 PM
03/02/13 06:06 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Posts: 3,613
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I'm sorry Elle to have to put it this way but you are deceived.

Son's of God are heirs of the Father and inherit the earth, what do the fallen angels inherit? Why would they be called Son's of God if their inheritance is destruction?

Acts 20:32
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
32 and now, I commend you, brethren, to God, and to the word of His grace, that is able to build up, and to give you an inheritance among all those sanctified.

28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

“Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” 1 Corinthians 15:50. Man in his present state is mortal, corruptible; but the kingdom of God will be incorruptible, enduring forever. Therefore man in his present state cannot enter into the kingdom of God. But when Jesus comes, He confers immortality upon His people; and then He calls them to inherit the kingdom of which they have hitherto been only heirs. {GC 322.2}

Know ye not that we shall judge the angels?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: Green Cochoa] #150282
03/02/13 06:21 PM
03/02/13 06:21 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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"Every word spoken by fathers and mothers has its influence over the children, for good or for evil. If the parents speak passionately, if they show the spirit shown by the children of this world, God counts them as the children of this world, not as His sons and daughters." {AH 434.2}

I have done a thorough investigation and not one time in scripture or the Spirit of Prophecy does God ever mention the fallen angels as his sons. In fact we are not even considered son's of God until the inheritance and I'm pretty positive God does not call the unfallen angels His sons either. They are called the morning stars.

The point is, why would God call the fallen angels "son's of God" if He doesn't call wicked men son's of God? If the prerequisite of being a Son of God for men is in conforming to the will of the Father, then why would it not be for angels? And if conforming to the Fathers will is the prerequisite then it is for certain that Satan could not be one.

"The nations of the saved will know no other law than the law of heaven. All will be a happy, united family, clothed with the garments of praise and thanksgiving. Over the scene the morning stars will sing together, and the sons of God will shout for joy, while God and Christ will unite in proclaiming, “There shall be no more sin, neither shall there be any more death.”10 {AH 544.2}

We will be called son's of God and will be a united family with Christ in the earth made new, and the angels or morning stars sing over us. So Satan was a morning star, not a son of God.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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