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Re: Love me or I'll kill you!
[Re: APL]
#150763
03/15/13 01:06 AM
03/15/13 01:06 AM
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Banned
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Active Member 2015
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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"...The teaching of this parable is illustrated in God’s own dealing with men and angels. Satan is a deceiver. When he sinned in heaven, even the loyal angels did not fully discern his character. This was why God did not at once destroy Satan. Had He done so, the holy angels would not have perceived the justice and love of God. A doubt of God’s goodness would have been as evil seed that would yield the bitter fruit of sin and woe. Therefore the author of evil was spared, fully to develop his character. Through long ages God has borne the anguish of beholding the work of evil, He has given the infinite Gift of Calvary, rather than leave any to be deceived by the misrepresentations of the wicked one; for the tares could not be plucked up without danger of uprooting the precious grain. And shall we not be as forbearing toward our fellow men as the Lord of heaven and earth is toward Satan? {COL 72.2}
The Saviour does not point forward to a time when all the tares become wheat. The wheat and tares grow together until the harvest, the end of the world. Then the tares are bound in bundles to be burned, and the wheat is gathered into the garner of God. “Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” Then “the Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” {COL 75.1} Isaiah 33:14-15 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness has surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? 15 He that walks righteously, and speaks uprightly; he that despises the gain of oppressions, that shakes his hands from holding of bribes, that stops his ears from hearing of blood, and shuts his eyes from seeing evil; The fire is the same. The righteous can live in it, the sinners are destroyed by it. Same fire! Sin destroys the sinner. You can't see the forest for the tree in your eye brother. Are you saying that the righteous fire of God which destroys the sinner is a result of sin? Do you not see you error or are you doing this to be controversial?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Love me or I'll kill you!
[Re: APL]
#150765
03/15/13 10:12 AM
03/15/13 10:12 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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People, change your mind and believe the Good News! Mark 1:14-15.
How will the Gospel reach a prejudiced mind?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Love me or I'll kill you!
[Re: Johann]
#150767
03/15/13 01:35 PM
03/15/13 01:35 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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People, change your mind and believe the Good News! Mark 1:14-15.
How will the Gospel reach a prejudiced mind? Our job as "evangelists", tellers of GOOD NEWS, is to present the truth. We can never change another's mind. "None but He who created man can effect a change in the human heart."
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Love me or I'll kill you!
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#150768
03/15/13 01:46 PM
03/15/13 01:46 PM
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SDA
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You can't see the forest for the tree in your eye brother.
Are you saying that the righteous fire of God which destroys the sinner is a result of sin? Do you not see you error or are you doing this to be controversial? james - PLEASE, point out where I say what you have just said. PLEASE! Can you? No. Read what EGW has said in the quotes, the answer is very clear.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Love me or I'll kill you!
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#150769
03/15/13 03:14 PM
03/15/13 03:14 PM
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OP
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So which is it? Is God the destroyer or the restorer?
If we do not permit God to restore us, He reluctantly destroys us so there will be harmony throughout His creation. Are you saying God is both? Do you disagree with Ellen White when she says, Satan is the destroyer; the Lord is the Restorer?
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Re: Love me or I'll kill you!
[Re: kland]
#150771
03/15/13 06:19 PM
03/15/13 06:19 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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I'm copying this over from the other thread where it was off-topic, to hopefully continue the discussion here instead. kland,
Mrs. White says Jesus accuses. She also says He is not the accuser of the brethren. Which is right?
Only mature minds can understand these things.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Only mature minds can understand these things.
They have had the privilege of listening to the truths of God’s word, of becoming acquainted with the reasons of our faith; but they have grown to mature years destitute of true piety. {CE 185.2} Who has a mature mind? What is the work of the Holy Spirit? If you have a mature mind, you should readily understand the distinction between "Jesus accuses" and "the accuser of the brethren." If you are also gifted with the ability of explanation, you should be able to teach someone else the distinction. The fact is, we have it said of Jesus that He accuses. We also have it said of Satan that he is the accuser. If Mrs. White has not contradicted herself, which I accept that she has not, then there must be a reasonable explanation for the apparent incongruence. The immature mind will not likely get properly past the incongruence, but will choose to reject one of the two facts altogether, and find some way of rationalizing it away. It takes a mature mind to carefully examine the evidence and see how the two seemingly opposing facts are actually in harmony. I would challenge the thinking of those participating in this thread for their own explanations of this "problem" case. If you can properly explain these facts, then we can move up a step to the case of "the destroyer" versus "destroying" that is so emotionally charged as to be impossible to correctly discern at present in this discussion. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Love me or I'll kill you!
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#150775
03/15/13 09:25 PM
03/15/13 09:25 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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I'm copying this over from the other thread where it was off-topic, to hopefully continue the discussion here instead. kland,
Mrs. White says Jesus accuses. She also says He is not the accuser of the brethren. Which is right?
Only mature minds can understand these things.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Only mature minds can understand these things.
They have had the privilege of listening to the truths of God’s word, of becoming acquainted with the reasons of our faith; but they have grown to mature years destitute of true piety. {CE 185.2} Who has a mature mind? What is the work of the Holy Spirit? If you have a mature mind, you should readily understand the distinction between "Jesus accuses" and "the accuser of the brethren." If you are also gifted with the ability of explanation, you should be able to teach someone else the distinction. The fact is, we have it said of Jesus that He accuses. We also have it said of Satan that he is the accuser. If Mrs. White has not contradicted herself, which I accept that she has not, then there must be a reasonable explanation for the apparent incongruence. The immature mind will not likely get properly past the incongruence, but will choose to reject one of the two facts altogether, and find some way of rationalizing it away. It takes a mature mind to carefully examine the evidence and see how the two seemingly opposing facts are actually in harmony. I would challenge the thinking of those participating in this thread for their own explanations of this "problem" case. If you can properly explain these facts, then we can move up a step to the case of "the destroyer" versus "destroying" that is so emotionally charged as to be impossible to correctly discern at present in this discussion. Blessings, Green Cochoa. I have found only one place where Ellen uses the expression "Jesus accuses". Would you say that she is using the term in the same meaning as we have been discussing? [quote]While they were so exact in things which God had never required of them, and were confusing their judgment and lessening the dignity of the divine system of benevolence by their narrow views, they were making clean the outside of the platter while the inside was corrupt. Exact in matters of little consequence, Jesus accuses them of having “omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith.” No outward service, even in that which is required by God, can be a substitute for an obedient life. The Creator desires heart service of his creatures. {3SP 63.1}
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Love me or I'll kill you!
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#150776
03/15/13 09:35 PM
03/15/13 09:35 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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I'm copying this over from the other thread where it was off-topic, to hopefully continue the discussion here instead. kland,
Mrs. White says Jesus accuses. She also says He is not the accuser of the brethren. Which is right?
Only mature minds can understand these things.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Only mature minds can understand these things.
They have had the privilege of listening to the truths of God’s word, of becoming acquainted with the reasons of our faith; but they have grown to mature years destitute of true piety. {CE 185.2} Who has a mature mind? What is the work of the Holy Spirit? If you have a mature mind, you should readily understand the distinction between "Jesus accuses" and "the accuser of the brethren." If you are also gifted with the ability of explanation, you should be able to teach someone else the distinction. The fact is, we have it said of Jesus that He accuses. We also have it said of Satan that he is the accuser. If Mrs. White has not contradicted herself, which I accept that she has not, then there must be a reasonable explanation for the apparent incongruence. The immature mind will not likely get properly past the incongruence, but will choose to reject one of the two facts altogether, and find some way of rationalizing it away. It takes a mature mind to carefully examine the evidence and see how the two seemingly opposing facts are actually in harmony. I would challenge the thinking of those participating in this thread for their own explanations of this "problem" case. If you can properly explain these facts, then we can move up a step to the case of "the destroyer" versus "destroying" that is so emotionally charged as to be impossible to correctly discern at present in this discussion. Blessings, Green Cochoa. You obviously brought over just a snippet of what ever thread you are speaking about. Perhaps you can address the questions raised on this thread? I think this post above is a dodge because you do not have an answer. The only place I see EGW saying Jesus accuses is about those that SHOULD know the law, but do not. Of course, this is a far cry from actually destroying... If you really want to see how God accuses, look at the story of the woman taken in adultery.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Love me or I'll kill you!
[Re: APL]
#150777
03/15/13 10:23 PM
03/15/13 10:23 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Last edited by APL; 03/15/13 10:37 PM.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Love me or I'll kill you!
[Re: APL]
#150780
03/15/13 10:52 PM
03/15/13 10:52 PM
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Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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This use of propaganda from sinners perspective does not support you testimony APL.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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