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Re: Love me or I'll kill you! [Re: APL] #151063
03/22/13 07:53 PM
03/22/13 07:53 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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yes this is true but how does it contradict what I wrote?

There are three phases to judgment Brother and the quote you used before was not talking about those who reject Jesus, it was for those who had not rejected Him.

"And God “hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.” Because He has tasted the very dregs of human affliction and temptation, and understands the frailties and sins of men; because in our behalf He has victoriously withstood the temptations of Satan, and will deal justly and tenderly with the souls that His own blood has been poured out to save,—because of this, the Son of man is appointed to execute the judgment. {DA 210.3}

What is EXECUTING JUDGMENT OF THE WICKED?

"Moses then commanded those at his right hand to take their swords, and go forth and slay the rebellious, who wished to go back into Egypt. None were to execute the judgment of God on the transgressors only those who had taken no part in the idolatry. He commanded them to spare neither brother, companion, nor neighbor. Those who engaged in this work of slaying, however painful, were now to realize that they were executing upon their brethren a solemn punishment from God; and for executing this painful work, contrary to their own feelings, God would bestow upon them his blessing. By performing this act, they showed their true feelings relative to the high crime of idolatry, and consecrated themselves more fully to the sacred worship of the only true God. The terror of the Lord was upon the people, and they were afraid that they would all be destroyed. As Moses saw their distress, he promised, according to their earnest request, to plead with the Lord to pardon their great sin. {1SP 251.2}

The results were that those who were sinning but had not hardened their heart against God repented of their sins, so great good came from this event.

I am amazed right now that others do not defend the truth here.

You prove you do not know the fear of the Lord. But I pray that you find the truth here and stop teaching lies because the end is here and guess who gets judged first?

"He who presides over His church and the destinies of nations is carrying forward the last work to be accomplished for this world. To His angels He gives the commission to execute His judgments. Let the ministers awake, let them take in the situation. The work of judgment begins at the sanctuary. “And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brazen altar.” Read Ezekiel 9:2-7. The command is, “Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.” Saith God, “I will recompense their way upon their head.” {TM 431.3}

You better get this right brothers and repent of your false doctrines.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Love me or I'll kill you! [Re: jamesonofthunder] #151065
03/22/13 07:57 PM
03/22/13 07:57 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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I'm positive you will say those where evil angels that do the destruction for Christ. Jesus holds counsel with evil eh?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Love me or I'll kill you! [Re: APL] #151069
03/22/13 08:51 PM
03/22/13 08:51 PM
APL  Offline
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Here is an excerpt from a recent author and I just recently found, in a chapter titles, "The Wrath of God".
Originally Posted By: Douglin
The Bible leaves us in no doubt that God hates sin, and He abhors evil. It also leaves us in no doubt that God is not the source or cause of evil. There is no evil in God. In fact God so hates sin that He cannot even look at it. “Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” Hebrews 1:9

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.” James 1:13-17

“The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” Psalms 145:17

“This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:” 1 John 1:5-6

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil… In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” 1 John 3:8; 1 John 3:10.

Why does God hate sin? God hates sin because sin separates His creatures from Him and thereby destroys them.

“But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.” Isaiah 59:2

“Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.” Psalms 34:21

“For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.” Psalms 1:6

Sin is telling God to depart. And God knows, and we need to know too, that when He departs the end-result is destruction.“Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden?

Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown with a flood: Which said unto God, Depart from us: and what can the Almighty do for them?” Job 22:15-17

“O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.” Jeremiah 17:13

“And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.” Isaiah 1:28

Going back now to Isaiah 59:2 we see clearly that sin separates between creature and Creator and hides His face from His creatures.

“Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.” Isaiah 59:1-2

Furthermore Isaiah 54:7-8 defines the mechanism of wrath as the hiding of God’s face.

“In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.” Isaiah 54:8

“How long, Lord? wilt thou hide thyself for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire?” Psalms 89:46

“Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.” Psalms 27:9

“Lord, by thy favour thou hast made my mountain to stand strong: thou didst hide thy face, and I was troubled.” Psalms 30:7

“Hear me speedily, O Lord: my spirit faileth: hide not thy face from me, lest I be like unto them that go down into the pit.” Psalms 143:7

Now how does God exercise His wrath?

Perhaps the clearest New Testament answer (other than the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ) was given by Paul in Romans Chapter One.

In Romans 1:18 Paul states clearly that the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all sin.

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;” Romans 1:18

In Romans 1:19-23 Paul shows that there is no excuse for sin or godlessnesss. Then in verse 24 he also explains how God exercises wrath. Paul states in Romans 1:24.

“WHEREFORE GOD ALSO GAVE THEM UP .…”

Paul repeats this explanation in Romans 1:26

“FOR THIS CAUSE GOD GAVE THEM UP.…”

And in Romans 1:28

“… GOD GAVE THEM OVER….”

Paul is clear in Romans 1:18-28 that God excercises His wrath by “giving up” the sinner to reap the consequences of sin.

But where did Paul get this explanation from? The only scriptures available in his day were the scriptures of the Old Testament.

Can we find this explanation in the Old Testament?

Yes!

Wrath, in all its various linguistic descriptions, was inflicted upon Israel and Judah with frequent regularity in the Old Testament Era.

In Deuteronomy chapter 28, God, through Moses, had given to the Israelites a list of the blessings of obedience (Deuteronomy 28:1-15), and a very much longer list of the curses of disobedience (Deuteronomy 28:15-68).

Let us now examine the language used to describe the curses, as we examine some of the verses in Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

Consider these verses.

“The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.The Lord shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. The Lord shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

The Lord will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. The Lord shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart:

Then the Lord will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they

shall cleave unto thee. Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the Lord bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.” Deuteronomy 28:20-22; Deuteronomy 28:27-28; Deuteronomy 28:59-61.

Each of these texts describes Israel’s punishment as striking them by a direct decree or a direct act of God.

But wait a minute!

Let us turn in our Bibles to Deuteronomy Chapter 31 verses 16-18.

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.” Deuteronomy 31:16-18.

Verse 17 explains very clearly the meaning and mechanism of wrath. When the Israelites forsook God by rejecting His loving invitations and warnings, He forsook them, His face was hid from them and all the evils which befell them happened because God was not among them.

It is very clear then that the mechanism of God’s wrath is the separation caused by sin. It is this separation between God and sinners that produces the “punishment.”

For futher confirmation refer to the following texts:

“Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.” Psalms 34:21

“But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.” Isaiah 59:2

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.” James 1:13-15

“Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?” Deuteronomy 31:17

The punishments do not come by the direct decreee or direct infliction by God. NO! The punishments come from sin itself as it separates from God. The problem with us is that we try to understand God’s wrath in terms of human wrath, but this is one thing we should never do. The reason is written down in James 1:20.

“For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.” James 1:20

Human wrath transgresses God’s law and therefore is sin. God’s wrath is righteous it does not act contrary to God’s law of love. God exercises His wrath by giving up those who reject Him. This “giving up” may be partial or complete as we shall learn from later studies.

To further clarify this point, consider Hosea 11:7-9.

“And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him. How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together. I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.” Hosea 11:7-9.

God asked His ancient people a question in Hosea 11:8. “HOW SHALL I GIVE THEE UP, EPHRAIM? How shall I deliver thee Israel?”

And notice (in Hosea 11:8) that in giving them up He would be making them as Admah and Zeboim, cities of the plain, which were destroyed with Sodom and Gomorrah (See Genesis 14:2; Genesis 19:24-25). This principle in these verses will be important in our understanding of the flood and who/what brought about the flood.

But understand from Hosea 11:9 that His giving them up was equivalent to:

(i) executing the fierceness of His anger and

(ii) destroying them.


Hosea 11:7-9 then, establishes the following identity of meanings:

GOD’S WRATH = HIS GIVING THEM UP = THE EXECUTION OF HIS FIERCE ANGER = HIS DESTROYING THEM

And remember Isaiah 59:2; Isaiah 54:8 which explain that God’s wrath is the hiding of His face caused by sin. It is the terrible separation, caused by sin, which produces destruction according to the principles of Jeremiah 17:13 and James 1:13-15.

Another term employed in scripture to describe wrath is the term HE SPARED NOT. Consider 2 Peter 2:4-6.

“For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;” 2 Peter 2:4-6.

We now come to a crucial point. Jesus suffered the wrath of God for us. “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”2 Cor. 5:21

“What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?” Romans 8:31-32

God spared not the angels who sinned.

God spared not the pre-flood world.

God spared not the cities of the plain: Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboim.

God spared not His Son!


“Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.” Isaiah 53:4-6.

Now the critical question.

Will He spare us? Yes, but only in Christ!

“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;” Hebrews 2:1-3.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Love me or I'll kill you! [Re: APL] #151074
03/22/13 09:51 PM
03/22/13 09:51 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jsot
You better get this right brothers and repent of your false doctrines.
Would you pick up the sword against the Sabbath breaker? I'm speaking literally. Would you?

Originally Posted By: EGW
It is a law both of the intellectual and the spiritual nature that by beholding we become changed. The mind gradually adapts itself to the subjects upon which it is allowed to dwell. It becomes assimilated to that which it is accustomed to love and reverence. Man will never rise higher than his standard of purity or goodness or truth. If self is his loftiest ideal, he will never attain to anything more exalted. Rather, he will constantly sink lower and lower. The grace of God alone has power to exalt man. Left to himself, his course must inevitably be downward. {GC 555.1}
Is killing sinners a high and moral thing? If that is how you picture God, then that is how YOU will treat others.

Mark 1:14-15 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent you, and believe the gospel.

What is the "gospel"? That is the Good News?

Fortunately, the Bible and the SOP when taken as a whole, are on our side.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Love me or I'll kill you! [Re: APL] #151076
03/22/13 10:03 PM
03/22/13 10:03 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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I have been raising the sword, the bible, in defense of the truth.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Love me or I'll kill you! [Re: APL] #151077
03/22/13 10:06 PM
03/22/13 10:06 PM
APL  Offline
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A revealing quote from Ellen
Originally Posted By: EGW
It is no part of Christ's mission to compel men to receive Him. It is Satan, and men actuated by his spirit, that seek to compel the conscience. Under a pretense of zeal for righteousness, men who are confederate with evil angels bring suffering upon their fellow men, in order to convert them to their ideas of religion; but Christ is ever showing mercy, ever seeking to win by the revealing of His love. He can admit no rival in the soul, nor accept of partial service; but He desires only voluntary service, the willing surrender of the heart under the constraint of love. There can be no more conclusive evidence that we possess the spirit of Satan than the disposition to hurt and destroy those who do not appreciate our work, or who act contrary to our ideas. {DA 487.3}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Love me or I'll kill you! [Re: APL] #151078
03/22/13 10:13 PM
03/22/13 10:13 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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If you don't remember correctly let me remind you, you started being contrary to something I had posted. This thread was started because I mentioned that God destroys the wicked and you both replied "GOD DESTROYS NO MAN" then started ridiculing me for that statement, and now you turn it around and claim I am contrary to your views?

That is exactly what Satan would do. That is also the epitome of hypocrisy!

So you just condemned yourself and think I am condemned. How apropos.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Love me or I'll kill you! [Re: jamesonofthunder] #151079
03/22/13 10:30 PM
03/22/13 10:30 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Post #150429 - 03/06/13 02:09 PM Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: jamesonofthunder]

This is the moment you started chastising me for not agreeing with your ideas. So YOU JUST CONDEMNED YOURSELF using the Spirit of Prophecy to do it, and your conscience is not seared?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Love me or I'll kill you! [Re: jamesonofthunder] #151083
03/22/13 11:37 PM
03/22/13 11:37 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jsot
If you don't remember correctly let me remind you, you started being contrary to something I had posted. This thread was started because I mentioned that God destroys the wicked and you both replied "GOD DESTROYS NO MAN" then started ridiculing me for that statement, and now you turn it around and claim I am contrary to your views?

That is exactly what Satan would do. That is also the epitome of hypocrisy!

So you just condemned yourself and think I am condemned. How apropos.
Originally Posted By: jsot
Post #150429 - 03/06/13 02:09 PM Re: Who were the 'spirits in prison'? [Re: jamesonofthunder]

This is the moment you started chastising me for not agreeing with your ideas. So YOU JUST CONDEMNED YOURSELF using the Spirit of Prophecy to do it, and your conscience is not seared?
So is it OK to repay evil with evil? OR should you repay evil with good?

1 Thessalonians 5:15 See that none render evil for evil to any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

Matthew 12:37
For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.

1 Corinthians 13:4-13 - emphasis supplied
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant
5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth.
7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end.
9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part;
10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end.
11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways.
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

The thing that needs to be answered is this: does sin have an intrinsic penalty, or extrinsic penalty.

Romans 6:23 For sin pays its wage---death; but God's free gift is eternal life in union with Christ Jesus our Lord.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Love me or I'll kill you! [Re: APL] #151084
03/23/13 12:19 AM
03/23/13 12:19 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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"The office of a messenger whom God has chosen to send with reproofs and warnings, is strangely misunderstood at the present time. When reproof is given, the church-members feel humiliated, as their real situation is revealed to them, which they were not able to discern. God in mercy sent them warnings and reproof because he loved them. He says, “As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous therefore and repent.” Those who need reproof bring sorrow and grief upon the soul of him who must correct their errors; but though his message be painful to him, he dare not neglect his work. Those who deserve reproofs feel hurt under personal admonition. Pride is wounded, and Satan suggests that their mistakes and errors will be reported to others, and remarks will be made in reference to their mistaken course of action. It would be well for these individuals to realize that their defects are manifest to all, and the world measures them by that which they do. Not only this world beholds their course, but they are a spectacle to the angels of heaven. The heavenly host are looking upon every man, woman, and child, and they see the defects of their characters. Besides this, nothing is hid from God; our secret sins are in the light of his countenance. {RH July 25, 1893, par. 6}

Ezekiel 3: 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Are you sure you want to continue in this? I am warned about you all the time, and it is not good.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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