Interesting observations you have made there, APL. I would observe the following in response.

1) This is a "mark" that Mrs. White speaks of as being visible, not to us mortals, but to all of the watching universe. If this mark were visible to us, we would have no need of wonderment as to what Cain's mark looked like! (And we know that people were able to see the mark Cain was given, because God did it so that they could see it and be afraid of killing him.)

2) God changed man's language at Babel. This is something He is well able to do, and has indeed done. The "Ethiopian" may not be able to change his skin, but God could.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green C; you do realize that the things you are saying about the mark of cain is what the KKK and all racist groups have been saying since Darwin don't you?

The problem with that assessment is the flood. Noah was the progenitor of the whole civilization of man after the flood. There were no descendants of Cain on the earth after the flood, unless you happen to think like most Catholics and nominal Christians that the flood was localised in Mesopotamia?

The descendants of NOAH are the beginning of the new line after the flood.

This next quote is confusing but necessary here.

"Every species of animals which God had created was preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation (between species), were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood, there has been amalgamation of man (with man) and beast (with beast), as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men." {1SP 78.2}

She is not saying men bred with beasts here, she is saying the amalgamation of different races intermingling have attained new races of people.

But then you have the group who say Shem was the good son so he must have been caucasian and Ham was negro and Jafet was Asian, etc. I do not agree with this either.

"Noah, speaking by divine inspiration, foretold the history of the three great races to spring from these fathers of mankind. Tracing the descendants of Ham, through the son rather than the father, he declared, “Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.” The unnatural crime of Ham declared that filial reverence had long before been cast from his soul, and it revealed the impiety and vileness of his character. These evil characteristics were perpetuated in Canaan and his posterity, whose continued guilt called upon them the judgments of God. {PP 117.2}

So this prophecy is foretelling that there would be three great races to spring out of the future descendants of the children of Noah, and that Canaan, the descendant of Ham many generations later would be the father of the cursed race of canaanites. The main distinction between Noah's children was their character not their racial color.

Adam had all of the genetics of the perfection of mankind which were passed down to Noah.

The division of the races was after the confusion of the languages. Genetic divisions within the descendants of Noah began to degenerate, which both shortening their descendants lifespan to 120 years and created genetic differences. God divided the people into groups at the tower of Babel. He saw their potential in racial divisions. He divided them according to His plans. Then they settled within their distinctive characteristics and the races were set, then the descendants of Ham had their characteristics both in race and character and became the canaanites.

In fact Shem, who was the good son of Noah is the Great x64 supposed grandfather of Jesus as according to the lineage recorded in Luke. If you look at the heritage of the Hebrew nation the direct unmingled descendants of Abraham, according to Paleontologists there is more of a dark skin quality to them, black curly hair and dark skin is what most of the children of Abraham had. But it wasn't until other races had been brought into the lineage of Jesus through intermarrying that He attained a more fair complexion and brown hair. (complete supposition but fair for argument)

We need to be very careful not to cast an ugly light on God's intent in these issues. No man is born to go to hell. The character of our fathers has nothing to do with our skin color. To say the mark of Cain is for the black people shows contempt for God's will. The mark of Cain is for anyone who would kill their brother for jealousy against the blessings God gives in accepting one mans service over others. So the mark is the contrast of men who do not have faith but yet claim to serve God.

"The black man’s name is written in the book of life beside the white man’s. All are one in Christ. Birth, station, nationality, or color cannot elevate or degrade men. The character makes the man. If a red man, a Chinaman, or an African gives his heart to God in obedience and faith, Jesus loves him nonetheless for his color. He calls him His well-beloved brother.—The Southern Work, 8, written March 20, 1891. {ChS 218.2}
The day is coming when the kings and the lordly men of the earth would be glad to exchange places with the humblest African who has laid hold on the hope of the gospel.—The Southern Work, 8, written March 20, 1891. {ChS 218.3}

JSOT,


No one here is advocating racism. To say, however, that racism has never existed, and that the Bible has nothing to say on the topic at all, would, in my mind at least, seem racist. I recognize that the Bible does indeed touch on the topic, both of racism, and of slavery. Interestingly, the Bible upholds the authority of slave masters over their slaves, and God Himself instituted a system of servanthood/slavery in the Kingdom of Israel.


Looking at races themselves should be completely separate from racism, just as looking at the Bible's words of other gods, idols, etc. should be completely separate from idolatry. One is not an idol-worshiper for recognizing what the Bible has to say on the topic, and one is not a racist for recognizing that races exist and are alluded to in the Bible.

God bless,

Green Cochoa.

Its very painful to the mind, when individuals use terms that they are unfamiliar with at best or having very little knowledge about, in the least. And I am being particularly generous here.
I have two very simple questions for you:-
1) give a biological definition on RACE underpinned by haematology, cellular[Mitochondrial], anatomical and neurological differences.
2) biblical evidence of the aforementioned.

Thank You

I'm something of a biologist (per college degree). But this topic is not directly about biology, Augustus. The topic of this thread was about Biblical origins. The discussion, as such, should center upon how the Bible treats the topic, not how scientists, most of whom eschew the Bible, would look at it. Scientists may research mitochondrial DNA and find that it always comes from the mother. How then can there be more than one such DNA, if Eve was the mother of all living (according to the Bible)?



The fact that there are more than one DNA for mitochondria and the fact that the scientists find this to always come from the mother adds some interesting questions to this topic, I suppose. Apparently, what it tells me, is that scientists don't always get it right. They either don't have all of the facts, or they choose not to accept all of the facts.

So, skip the modern science....and let's get back to the Bible.

The Bible itself does not use our modern word "race," nor does it subscribe to the "scientific definition" of it. The Bible speaks of tribes, families, nations, and peoples. The Bible mentions nationalities at times. For example people are mentioned as having come from Ethiopia, from Asia, from Rome, from Grece, from Babylon, from Canaan, from Egypt, from Israel (Jews), etc. While Jews, Greeks, Romans, Ethiopians, etc. are all mentioned in the Bible, the Bible focuses on their spiritual attributes. They either accept God, or they reject Him. They either follow His law, or they do not. Their physical attributes are rarely mentioned. The Ethiopan's skin is a rare exception. Moses' wife, Zipporah, being a Midianite, we are told had somewhat darker skin. This, too, is a rare exception.

In the Greek, the word "nation" is "ethnos," which makes one think of ethnicities. The same word is also used for Gentiles, for heathen, and for peoples. Speaking of which, why is the word "people" pluraled if we are all one and the same "people?" The plural highlights the fact that differences and/or categories of people do exist. The Bible does not attempt to teach that all people are the same. There are differences among individual persons, and there are differences among groups of people.

The major emphasis of the Bible is upon reaching all of these people groups with the Gospel. That should be our focus as well.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Why then do you persist in this discourse...RACE.
Your post is constantly littered with this evolutionary counter-Christian world view. And now, you henceforth deprecate its pseudo-biological rendition.

Augustus,

Kindly look at the opening topic for this thread, and perhaps your answers will all be found there.

God bless,

Green Cochoa.

OK lets stay on topic GC. Between me and you here, I'll inquire and you answer OK?

1) Do you believe that the flood was universally covering the whole earth?

2) Do you believe Noah was a descendant of Cain?

3) If not then how did the descendants of Cain (to you the black race) continue after the flood?

Just a side note.

Ham, the irreverent son of Noah became the father of the canaanites who dwelt in Egypt and Arabia.

“With great power, and with a mighty hand,” God brought His chosen people out of the land of Egypt. Exodus 32:11. “He sent Moses His servant; and Aaron whom He had chosen. They showed His signs among them, and wonders in the land of Ham.” “He rebuked the Red Sea also, and it was dried up: so He led them through the depths.” Psalm 105:26, 27; 106:9. He rescued them from their servile state, that He might bring them to a good land, a land which in His providence He had prepared for them as a refuge from their enemies. He would bring them to Himself and encircle them in His everlasting arms; and in return for His goodness and mercy they were to exalt His name and make it glorious in the earth. {PK 16.2}

"Noah, speaking by divine inspiration, foretold the history of the three great races to spring from these fathers of the human race. Tracing the descendants of Ham, through the son rather than the father, he declared, “Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.”... Evil characteristics were perpetuated in Canaan and his posterity, whose continued guilt called upon them the judgments of God.... {CTr 68.3}
Though the prophetic curse had doomed them to slavery, the doom was withheld for centuries. God bore with their impiety and corruption until they passed the limits of divine forbearance. Then they were dispossessed, and became bondmen to the descendants of Shem and Japheth.... {CTr 68.4}
For a time the descendants of Noah continued to dwell among the mountains where the ark had rested. As their numbers increased, apostasy soon led to division. Those who desired to forget their Creator and to cast off the restraint of His law felt a constant annoyance from the teaching and example of their God-fearing associates, and after a time they decided to separate from the worshipers of God. Accordingly they journeyed to the plain of Shinar, on the banks of the river Euphrates. They were attracted by the beauty of the situation and the fertility of the soil, and upon this plain they determined to make their home. {CTr 68.5}
Here they decided to build a city, and in it a tower of such stupendous height as should render it the wonder of the world. These enterprises were designed to prevent the people from scattering abroad in colonies. God had directed men and women to disperse throughout the earth, to replenish and subdue it; but these Babel builders determined to keep their community united in one body, and to found a monarchy that should eventually embrace the whole earth.... The magnificent tower, reaching to the heavens, was intended to stand as a monument of the power and wisdom of its builders, perpetuating their fame to the latest generations.—Patriarchs and Prophets, 117-119. {CTr 68.6}

So the majority of the people who dwelt in Babylon when the languages were confused were the descendants of Ham, even though we know There were some descendants of Shem there also because Abraham was called out of BaBYLON and he was a descendant of Shem.

After the confusion of the languages the children of Ham became the canaanites and they were enslaved by the descendants of Shem and Japhet.

Green, I thought APL and I helped you past the racism part. You seem to still be clinging to it.

You said:
Indicating darkness, being black, is a curse of God, being most "servant" to other races, "universally recognized". If that is not racist, I don't know what is!

And did God "curse" another person by making him black for his father's sin? Was Ham's wife black and God saved one who was "cursed" from the flood?