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Re: What saves us?
[Re: APL]
#152908
06/06/13 01:21 AM
06/06/13 01:21 AM
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Hi APL,
Here are some verses to show that Christ's death doesn't save us.
1Cor 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
It also reminds of me of the Day of Atonement; Only those whose sins were confessed and transferred(Forsaken) to the sanctuary had their sins cleansed. If you did confess them you would bare them and the consequences (Death) So on that day it was necessary to already have your sins confessed repented of and forsaken. If not the death of the sin offering was of no value to that person.
If when Christ died for our sins, (being our substitute and surety,) He would have saved us, then the entire world would have been saved at His death. But this did not happen. Neither was anyone forgiven at His death but rather a provision for forgiveness was made so that all who claim Christ as their sacrifice can be forgiven and are passed from death unto life.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Norman
Last edited by Rosangela; 06/08/13 04:38 PM.
No one can make you upset unless you choose to be, otherwise you're a slave to all and everything that makes me mad
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: Norman]
#152916
06/06/13 01:54 AM
06/06/13 01:54 AM
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OP
SDA
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Posts: 6,368
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You do not need to convince me Norm. As I quoted above: Romans 5:10 We were God's enemies, but he made us his friends through the death of his Son. Now that we are God's friends, how much more will we be saved by Christ's life!
Is it his death that saves us? It is his LIFE that saves us...
Last edited by Rosangela; 06/08/13 04:39 PM.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: APL]
#152918
06/06/13 02:11 AM
06/06/13 02:11 AM
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that's why I love truth, it unifies those who love it.
Norman
Last edited by Rosangela; 06/08/13 04:40 PM.
No one can make you upset unless you choose to be, otherwise you're a slave to all and everything that makes me mad
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: APL]
#152925
06/06/13 12:39 PM
06/06/13 12:39 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Give me your definition of vicarious. It means substitutive; it means in our place; it means He paid our penalty for having transgressed the law; it means He paid the debt we owed to the law.
Last edited by Rosangela; 06/08/13 04:40 PM.
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: Rosangela]
#152932
06/06/13 01:36 PM
06/06/13 01:36 PM
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Posts: 6,368
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Give me your definition of vicarious. It means substitutive; it means in our place; it means He paid our penalty for having transgressed the law; it means He paid the debt we owed to the law. Then we are home free! Great, I'm saved. My debt has been paid, correct?
Last edited by Rosangela; 06/08/13 04:41 PM.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: APL]
#152933
06/06/13 04:56 PM
06/06/13 04:56 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Correct. Then you don't believe that, correct?
Last edited by Rosangela; 06/08/13 04:41 PM.
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Re: Was Jesus born without sin?
[Re: Rosangela]
#152934
06/06/13 05:18 PM
06/06/13 05:18 PM
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Correct. Then you don't believe that, correct? Let me clarify one more time, you are saying, all we need to do is believe, and we are saved, right? If so, the also please clarify what you mean by "believe", what does that involve?
Last edited by APL; 06/06/13 05:20 PM.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: APL]
#152935
06/06/13 06:37 PM
06/06/13 06:37 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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I didn't refer to that. I asked whether you believe or not that Christ paid our penalty for having transgressed the law, that He paid the debt we owed to the law, that His death was substitutive in this sense.
Last edited by Rosangela; 06/08/13 04:42 PM.
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: Rosangela]
#152936
06/06/13 06:59 PM
06/06/13 06:59 PM
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OP
SDA
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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I didn't refer to that. I asked whether you believe or not that Christ paid our penalty for having transgressed the law, that He paid the debt we owed to the law, that His death was substitutive in this sense. If you answer my question, then I will answer yours.
Last edited by Rosangela; 06/08/13 04:43 PM.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What saves us?
[Re: APL]
#152938
06/06/13 08:02 PM
06/06/13 08:02 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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APL, all we have to do is to believe, but with the true faith, the one that works by love and purifies the soul.
Last edited by Rosangela; 06/08/13 04:43 PM.
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