The destruction was delayed. It will come at the promised time. Through prophecy, we all know when it will happen, and how.



Not "sin alone," not "DNA alone," in fact not even DNA at all--but "the arm of Omnipotence alone can cleanse the earth from the evil which Satan has brought into it." Furthermore, we are told HOW this will happen--it says "this He will do by destroying the world by fire, even as He destroyed the old world by a flood."

Tell me, when the world was "destroyed" by flood, did the "world" still remain? Even a child would understand this context to refer to the world's wicked population, and not the old earth itself. Therefore, God has proclaimed that He will destroy sinful people again--but this time by fire.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Now, why does every thread that APL participates in get off on this tangent? The topic of this thread is the most important topic on this forum. Let us get back to it.


The rich young ruler asked this most important question of Jesus--the most important question ever asked of Him in all of His ministry: "What must I do to be saved?" I think a close examination of that dialogue is appropriate for anyone wishing to learn how to be saved.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Had satan and his fellow sinners been allowed to reap the natural consequences of sin, the on looking universe would have not understood that this was the the result of sin and thought it was execution by God. God had to allow the playing out of sin, to show the effects of sin, the malignity of sin to be clearly seen. Many quotes of EGW support that fact that God is not the executioner! GC 35/36 as a clear example! It is not a hard quote to understand. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. He allows the natural results of sin to continue, and sinners do die.

Did the destruction of the world by the flood destroy sin? No. Malachi 4 tells us that when the fires do come at the end, the sinners will be stubble. They are dead. Then the fires cleanse the earth? Why fire? Why burn up the whole earth if the sinners are dead? Why Green?

According to your theory, if I jump off a cliff, I can avoid death. All I have to do is watch Someone else who was made to jump off the cliff and survived, and copy Him. So, if on the way down I am convinced that I should not jump off cliffs anymore, then I will be OK when I get to the bottom because my cliff-jumping has been healed.

Flawed.

The concept of a substitute bearing the condemnation for someone else and imputing righteousness to someone else is incompatible with the healing-only model.

Of course YOU can push the example to the extreme ridiculous. The point is that violating any of God's laws have intrinsic consequences. Violating the laws of our being has intrinsic consequences. God is not the executioner.

And proportionately as nature's laws are transgressed, physical suffering and disease of every stripe and type is seen; for every transgression of the laws of physical life is a transgression of the laws of God. {SpM 40.2}

The world today is full of pain and suffering and agony. But is it the will of God that such a condition shall exist? -- No. God, the Creator of our bodies, has arranged every fiber and nerve, and sinew and muscle, and has pledged himself to keep the machinery in order, if the human agent will cooperate with him, and refuse to work contrary to the laws which govern the physical system. {SpM 40.5}

God's law is written by His own finger upon every nerve, every muscle, every faculty which has been entrusted to man. These gifts were bestowed upon him, not to be abused, corrupted and abased, but to be used to His honor and glory. Every misuse of any part of our organism is a violation of the law which God designs shall govern us in these matters, and by violating this law human beings corrupt themselves; sickness and disease of every kind, ruined constitutions, premature decay, untimely deaths, these are the results of a violation of nature's laws. {SpM 40.6}

The consequences of sin is intrinsic.

The concept of someone legally taking the fall for another person is flawed for many reason. Christ is our substitute in reality in that he took our nature, bore the penalty of sin in reality, not some staged event, experienced what we would have gone through, and by this knowledge, He is able to justify, put right, heal, all who are willing. He bore our sickness, Matthew 8:17. Hebrews 2:17-18 Why in all things it behooved him to be made like to his brothers, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself has suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are tempted. The Healing model makes any logical sense. Salvation MEANS healing. Is Christ the Great Physician or the Great Lawyer?

The atonement of Christ is not a mere skillful way to have our sins pardoned; it is a divine remedy for the cure of transgression and the restoration of spiritual health. It is the heaven-ordained means by which the righteousness of Christ may be not only upon us, but in our hearts and characters.--Letter 406, 1906.

It is not legal finagling, it is a divine remedy - health solution.

Yes, but you are not applying it to your own ideas.

You will die if you jump off a cliff. Even if you never jump off again after that, you will still die because of that first jump. That is the intrinsic consequence of that first jump. And no matter what you do thereafter, if you want to avoid the consequences of that first jump, you need to address that first jump.

But you say that we can avoid death as long as we stop sinning. Even if we had sinned countless times, as most of us have, you say that we will live eternally if we simply stop doing it from now on. You ignore the basic fact that the wages of sin, even one sin, is always death. And if we want to avoid death, we must address every one of our sins, not just future ones.

God has one law - love. Any deviation from it precipitates one penalty - death. There is no way around it. It is intrinsic.


Then why do you say that our billions of sins can be ignored if we simply stop sinning?

This is a misunderstanding of a true statement.

God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression... {GC 36.1}

But later in that book we find this: God has given in His word decisive evidence that He will punish the transgressors of His law. Those who flatter themselves that He is too merciful to execute justice upon the sinner, have only to look to the cross of Calvary. The death of the spotless Son of God testifies that "the wages of sin is death," that every violation of God's law must receive its just retribution. {GC 539.3}

Will God execute justice upon the sinner? Yes, the SOP says so.

Will God be the executioner of the sentence upon each sinner? No, the SOP says so.

How is this? Look at Calvary. Christ was made sin for us so that He could be our Substitute. God executed the wages of sin upon Jesus as our Substitute.

Now, those who choose to die IN Christ will not need to die LIKE Christ. Instead, we can live IN Christ even though we have not lived LIKE Christ. And this is possible because we can obey IN Christ, though not quite LIKE Christ.

But then, you don't accept substitution. You only accept genetic manipulation. That's a problem.

Do you deny that Jesus bore "the condemnation in our behalf"?


Was Jesus the Son of God or the Son Mary or the Son of Man? Jesus was not a one-trick-pony. Don't fall for the either/or fallacy.