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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154099
07/12/13 04:58 AM
07/12/13 04:58 AM
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OP
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So that innocent lion that ate the neighbor was just mistreated by humans, that is why it kill humans, and oh, that is why it hunts and kills other animals. Is that what you would tell you 6 year old?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#154100
07/12/13 05:26 AM
07/12/13 05:26 AM
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So that innocent lion that ate the neighbor was just mistreated by humans, that is why it kill humans, and oh, that is why it hunts and kills other animals. Is that what you would tell you 6 year old? The lion is just an animal, doing what sin-cursed animals do. In the Bible it represents the manner in which Satan will also hunt and kill us. If that innocent rain (can water "sin"?) can fall so fast that there is a flash-flood, and someone drowns, it was also because of a sin-cursed earth in which conditions are not favorable toward eternal life. We all must die. That is part of sin's curse. Whether it is by lion, by flood, by stroke, by auto accident, by heart attack, by cancer, by murder, by suicide, or by any other means, our own sin is ultimately the cause. We have no one else to blame. If God allows us to die, when we are trusting our lives to His care, He is not sinning against us...it is our sin that has brought our mortal condition upon us. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154101
07/12/13 05:39 AM
07/12/13 05:39 AM
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OP
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HOW does sin curse and animal? WHAT makes a rattle snake grows fangs with venom? By our abuse of them? Really? Is that what you would tell your 6 year old? You took biology in college. You know why snakes have fangs and venom. And you will say it is because of our abuse of animals that this happened? PLEASE explain how that happened to the innocent snake.
It is our sin that has brought our moral condition on us, or was it Adam's sin? We are talking first death here.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#154102
07/12/13 05:58 AM
07/12/13 05:58 AM
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HOW does sin curse and animal? WHAT makes a rattle snake grows fangs with venom? By our abuse of them? Really? Is that what you would tell your 6 year old? You took biology in college. You know why snakes have fangs and venom. And you will say it is because of our abuse of animals that this happened? PLEASE explain how that happened to the innocent snake.
It is our sin that has brought our moral condition on us, or was it Adam's sin? We are talking first death here. You are talking about God's curse, though you may not realize it. Read Genesis chapter 3 again, then find what Mrs. White says about it. I don't have time to do your research. You are well-educated. Why should I continue this off-topic tangent with you? The Bible tells you to study it diligently for yourself. This is an individual responsibility. Please do not continue asking me things that any "master in Israel" should be well aware of. Reminder: the topic of this thread is NOT the "biology of sin." It is defining the "wrath of God." Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154103
07/12/13 06:32 AM
07/12/13 06:32 AM
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You are talking about God's curse This is how one can misunderstand the wrath of God. Read Genesis 3. Where does it say "God cursed"? It does not. God does declare that because of sin, there will be a curse. Brought by God? No. Brought on by sin. Genesis 3:14 "And the LORD God said to the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; on your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life:" And lest you read in the KJV Genesis 3:16 and misunderstand, do read what the Hebrew really says. It is written that God cursed the ground for man's sake. The thorn and the thistle, the difficulties and the trials that make his life one of toil and care, were appointed for his good, as a part of the training needful in God's plan for his uplifting from the ruin and degradation. The world, though fallen, is not all sorrow and misery. In nature itself are messages of hope and comfort. There are flowers upon the thistle, and the thorns are covered with roses. {BTS, November 1, 1908 par. 3} Did the ground now produce thorns and thistles because of a curse of God? OR did God declare what would now happen because of sin? Where did the thorns and thistles come from? After the transgression of Adam, God might have destroyed every opening bud and blooming flower, or He might have taken away their fragrance, so grateful to the senses. In the earth seared and marred by the curse, in the briers, the thistles, the thorns, the tares, we may read the law of condemnation; but in the delicate color and perfume of the flowers, we may learn that God still loves us, that His mercy is not wholly withdrawn from the earth (RH Nov. 8, 1898). {1BC 1085.10} the curse marred the earth, but did this happen because God caused it? Christ never planted the seeds of death in the system. Satan planted these seeds when he tempted Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge, which meant disobedience to God. Not one noxious plant was placed in the Lord's great garden, but after Adam and Eve sinned, poisonous herbs sprang up. In the parable of the sower the question was asked the master, "Didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? From whence then hath it tares?" The master answered, "An enemy hath done this." [Matthew 13:27, 28.] All tares are sown by the evil one. Every noxious herb is of his sowing, and by his ingenious methods of amalgamation he has corrupted the earth with tares. {16MR 247.2} bingo - there you go! It was sin that produces thorns and thistles, and causes the snake to crawl on its belly and causes women to have great pain in childbirth. God did not cause these things. And is it not interesting that "the curse" is via genetic manipulation according to EGW. And is it not interesting that the reason snakes have venomous fangs is because it is coded in the DNA? You are right, little children CAN understand the truth. Now if we misunderstand "the curse", might we also misunderstand the "Wrath of God"?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: APL]
#154104
07/12/13 07:05 AM
07/12/13 07:05 AM
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This is how one can misunderstand the wrath of God. Read Genesis 3. Where does it say "God cursed"? It does not. Again, even a child understands this better than you do. God was the One speaking the curse. Why should He say "God cursed?" You are too nit-picking to see the truth. Your very first EGW quote had the truth. It is written that God cursed the ground for man's sake. How can you twist this to say what it doesn't say? Again, I'd rather explain this all to a child. A child would understand. Let's look again at your full quote. It is written that God cursed the ground for man's sake. The thorn and the thistle, the difficulties and the trials that make his life one of toil and care, were appointed for his good, as a part of the training needful in God's plan for his uplifting from the ruin and degradation. The world, though fallen, is not all sorrow and misery. In nature itself are messages of hope and comfort. There are flowers upon the thistle, and the thorns are covered with roses. {BTS, November 1, 1908 par. 3} God NEEDED ("needful") the thorn, thistle, etc. as "part of...God's plan." Furthermore, they "were appointed" for our "good." Does anything "good" come from Satan? Did God tell Satan to do this for us because God Himself needed it? Ludicrous reasoning. Again, a child would understand this. Mystified at how the devil can sell us such a bill of goods, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154105
07/12/13 07:23 AM
07/12/13 07:23 AM
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3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. God says "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow...." God says "I will put enmity between...." God curses the serpent, a symbol of Satan. While Satan may have brought God's curse deservedly upon himself, he does not curse himself. He does not choose this for himself. He does not desire it. But he gets it. It comes about because of his sin. God curses the ground for our sake. It is good. Yes, if you misunderstand God's curse, you will misunderstand His wrath. In that thou saidst truly. God cursed the ground because of their sin in eating of the tree of knowledge, and declared, "In sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life." He had apportioned them the good, but withheld the evil. Now God declares that they shall eat of it, that is, they should be acquainted with evil all the days of their life. {1SP 43.1} Now, let us not dissemble and say that Satan cursed that which God tells us He cursed. The significance of it being God's curse is great. It tells us Who is in charge in this rebellious planet. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#154116
07/12/13 01:24 PM
07/12/13 01:24 PM
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God says "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow...."
Who killed Saul?
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: kland]
#154117
07/12/13 01:45 PM
07/12/13 01:45 PM
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OP
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Well, you better tell EGW! SHE is the one that says that God did not create the thorns and thistles. It was Satan! God cursed the ground because of their sin in eating of the tree of knowledge, and declared, "In sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life." He had apportioned them the good, but withheld the evil. Now God declares that they shall eat of it, that is, they should be acquainted with evil all the days of their life. {1SP 43.1} Christ never planted the seeds of death in the system. Satan planted these seeds when he tempted Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge, which meant disobedience to God. Not one noxious plant was placed in the Lord's great garden, but after Adam and Eve sinned, poisonous herbs sprang up. In the parable of the sower the question was asked the master, "Didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? From whence then hath it tares?" The master answered, "An enemy hath done this." [Matthew 13:27, 28.] All tares are sown by the evil one. Every noxious herb is of his sowing, and by his ingenious methods of amalgamation he has corrupted the earth with tares. {16MR 247.2} Is EGW WRONG? WHO created the thorns and the thistles? God? Or Satan? Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; it shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel. When man sinned, God did step in and say, I will allow this, but there are limits. I'm not going to let you have total free reign. There will be enmity between "your seed and her seed." What is seed? The same word used in Genesis 3:15 is the used in Genesis 1:29. The Hebrew word is "zera" - look it up. The septuagint uses the Greek word "sperma". It is genetic material. Now that you KNOW that God did not cause the snake to crawl on its belly and eat dust, but "the curse" did, which is what Satan has done to all creation, It is easy to teach a child the TRUTH about God. And Genesis 3:15 can be understood as to what is going on. God is not a monster. He is not out to torment mankind by sending thorns and thistles. He is not out to kill His enemies. He is trying to win His enemies. Romans 2:4 Or despise you the riches of his goodness and forbearance and long-suffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? Again, misunderstand God's curse, you will probably misunderstand God's wrath.
Last edited by APL; 07/12/13 02:22 PM.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What is the Wrath of God?
[Re: kland]
#154119
07/12/13 03:27 PM
07/12/13 03:27 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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God says "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow...."
Who killed Saul? Who killed Nadab and Abihu?  Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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