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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior...
[Re: Johann]
#155858
09/06/13 12:24 PM
09/06/13 12:24 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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What a miserable life! Rick, you seem to be hanging your sinful soul on the lack of some verses where you think they should be, when in reality the message is all over in the Scriptures. There is an abundance of messages teaching you the real gospel you are missing, if you are only willing to look for them where they are.
We may need some warnings against Gnosticism. How is the use of the KJV a safeguard against it? As for Pantheism, the most notorious sample our church has is the experience of Dr. Kellogg. And he was followed by Waggoner, one of our best preachers.
Tell me, was their pantheism associated with the wrong manuscripts of the Bible?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior...
[Re: Rick H]
#155859
09/06/13 12:47 PM
09/06/13 12:47 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Now here is also something that is very clear from that Dean Burgon site of yours: H. HEAVEN AND HELL. We believe in the everlasting bliss of the saved in the place called Heaven, and in the everlasting suffering of the lost in the place called Hell-fire. Such a belief penetrates the thinking and theology and explanations of Gnosticism. These people believe in an everlasting Heaven and not a renewed Earth with the New Jerusalem. They believe in an everlasting hell and sufferings of the wicked. Therefore I would not buy any of their other teachings on face value. Especially not what they have to say on such subjects as Gnosticism and Pantheism because those are closely related to the pagan teaching of the immortality of the soul. It is your privilege to be their servant and propagate their views, just don't insist on calling it Seventh-day Adventist.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior...
[Re: Rick H]
#155862
09/06/13 01:23 PM
09/06/13 01:23 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
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Well lets take a look at some comparisons in the difference between the Minority Text based on the Alexandrian manuscripts and the Majority Text.
Rev 22:16 (KJV) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star We see Jesus is the "Morning star"
Isa 14:12 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV has Satan is Son of the Morning.
But look at the same verse in the NIV, Satan is given the name of Jesus.
Isaiah 14:12 New International Version (NIV) 12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
Interesting, to say the least. Now here is one Adventist know very well..
But Rick, what should it say? Many that are drifting into darkness and infidelity are picking flaws with the Bible, and bringing in superstitious inventions, unscriptural doctrines, and philosophical speculations; others excite trifling inquiries and disputations, which call off the servants of God from their work, causing them to waste their time and lose their labor. Those who permit themselves to be thus hindered are giving place to Satan, and surrounding their own souls with an atmosphere of doubt and unbelief. While doing this, they might have been bringing gold, silver, and precious stones to lay upon the foundation. The ministers of Christ should not allow themselves to be thus hindered in their work. There will be enough to question, and quibble, and criticise, to keep the ministers of God constantly busy, if they will allow themselves to be detained from the great work of giving the last message of warning to the world. {GW92 273.1} Rick, speaking of unscriptural doctrines, you say that people who believe differently than you were involved with the other versions and so therefore cannot be trusted. What about what Johann pointed out? You are using people which support eternally suffering hell. Or does that match your beliefs?
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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior...
[Re: Rick H]
#155867
09/06/13 02:10 PM
09/06/13 02:10 PM
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SDA Chaplain Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
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I agree, it can be taught, but which is better, one that has been tested and preserved with comparitively the same text or one which is filled with changes, deletions or omissions.
O.K. You have partial agreement. Good! You ask, Which is better? I will suggest that there are a couple of good answers: 1) You seek to use the translation that is based upon the most authorative text. You might believe that to be the KJV and I might believe that to be the NIV. In either case, so be it. We are both doing what we believe to be best. 2) If we are working with a person who believes that the Bible is authority and has a favorite translation, we should use that favorite translation. In doing so, we should not attack it as being corrupted and full of errors. To do so is, in my opinion, doing the work of the Father of Lies. 3) Part of the problem that I have with this discussion is that there is no perfect text/translation in which some error cannot be shown to be. The KJV is not perfect in its basic text. So also for others. Personally, I believe that EGW had some important things to say in 1SM 15-23\. I would like to quote many passages here but will not do so. However, I will cite the following: Some look to us gravely and say, 'Don't you think there might have been some mistake in the copyist or in the translators?' This is all probably, and the mind that is so narrow that it will hesitate and stumble over this possibility of probability would be just as ready to stumble over the mysteries of the Inspired word,. . . All the mistakes will not cause trouble to one soul, or cause any feet to stumble, that would not manufacture difficulties from the plainest revealed truth. Page 16 and The Bible is snot given to us in grand superhuman language. Jesus, in order to reach man where he is, took humanity. the Bible must be given in the language of men. Everything that is human is imperfect. Different meanings are expressed by the same word; there is not one work for each distinct idea. the Bible was given for practical purposes. page 20 and The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. . . . It Is not the words of the Bible that are inspired, but the men that were inspired. Inspiration acts not on the man's words or his expressions but on the man himself, who under the influence of the Holy Ghost, is imbued with thoughts. page 21
Gregory May God's will be done.
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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior...
[Re: Gregory]
#155868
09/06/13 02:13 PM
09/06/13 02:13 PM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,126
Florida, USA
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I agree, it can be taught, but which is better, one that has been tested and preserved with comparitively the same text or one which is filled with changes, deletions or omissions.
O.K. You have partial agreement. Good! You ask, Which is better? I will suggest that there are a couple of good answers: 1) You seek to use the translation that is based upon the most authorative text. You might believe that to be the KJV and I might believe that to be the NIV. In either case, so be it. We are both doing what we believe to be best. 2) If we are working with a person who believes that the Bible is authority and has a favorite translation, we should use that favorite translation. In doing so, we should not attack it as being corrupted and full of errors. To do so is, in my opinion, doing the work of the Father of Lies. 3) Part of the problem that I have with this discussion is that there is no perfect text/translation in which some error cannot be shown to be. The KJV is not perfect in its basic text. So also for others. Personally, I believe that EGW had some important things to say in 1SM 15-23\. I would like to quote many passages here but will not do so. However, I will cite the following: Some look to us gravely and say, 'Don't you think there might have been some mistake in the copyist or in the translators?' This is all probably, and the mind that is so narrow that it will hesitate and stumble over this possibility of probability would be just as ready to stumble over the mysteries of the Inspired word,. . . All the mistakes will not cause trouble to one soul, or cause any feet to stumble, that would not manufacture difficulties from the plainest revealed truth. Page 16 and The Bible is snot given to us in grand superhuman language. Jesus, in order to reach man where he is, took humanity. the Bible must be given in the language of men. Everything that is human is imperfect. Different meanings are expressed by the same word; there is not one work for each distinct idea. the Bible was given for practical purposes. page 20 and The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. . . . It Is not the words of the Bible that are inspired, but the men that were inspired. Inspiration acts not on the man's words or his expressions but on the man himself, who under the influence of the Holy Ghost, is imbued with thoughts. page 21 It can be taught, but look were the Jehovah Witnesses went with it, look where Arianism went with it, and to say nothing of Docetism and Marcionism. Is that where you want to take your faith. I don't think so. Better to stay with the tried and true text, than one that is shown to be purposely corrupted.
Last edited by Rick H; 09/06/13 02:19 PM.
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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior...
[Re: Rick H]
#155869
09/06/13 03:51 PM
09/06/13 03:51 PM
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SDA Chaplain Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
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I will remind you that the JWs used both the revered TR as well as the MSS used by the modern translations. The problem was not with the MSS that they used, it was with what they did with those MSS. , "The New World Bible translation committee had no known translators with recognized degrees in Greek or Hebrew exegesis or translation... None of these men had any university education except Franz, who left school after two years, never completing even an undergraduate degree. In fact, Frederick W. Franz, then representing the translation committee and later serving as the Watchtower Society's fourth president, admitted under oath that he could not translate Genesis 2:4 from the Hebrew." The latter admission came after Franz had stated under oath that he was familiar with not only Hebrew, but with Greek, Latin, Spanish, Portuguese, German, and French for the purpose of Biblical translation. Frankly, the more you know about how that translation was done, the worse it gets.
Gregory May God's will be done.
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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior...
[Re: Gregory]
#155870
09/06/13 05:15 PM
09/06/13 05:15 PM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,126
Florida, USA
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I will remind you that the JWs used both the revered TR as well as the MSS used by the modern translations. The problem was not with the MSS that they used, it was with what they did with those MSS. , "The New World Bible translation committee had no known translators with recognized degrees in Greek or Hebrew exegesis or translation... None of these men had any university education except Franz, who left school after two years, never completing even an undergraduate degree. In fact, Frederick W. Franz, then representing the translation committee and later serving as the Watchtower Society's fourth president, admitted under oath that he could not translate Genesis 2:4 from the Hebrew." The latter admission came after Franz had stated under oath that he was familiar with not only Hebrew, but with Greek, Latin, Spanish, Portuguese, German, and French for the purpose of Biblical translation. Frankly, the more you know about how that translation was done, the worse it gets. I think God has his faithful, who can discern and understand how He has preserved His Word for them over the years, so its good to go over it.
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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior...
[Re: Rick H]
#155874
09/06/13 09:26 PM
09/06/13 09:26 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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The Storehouse In the Word of God there are rich mines of truth that we may spend our whole lifetime in exploring, and yet we shall find that we have only begun to view their precious stores.... There are unsearchable riches for us. It will take us all eternity to comprehend the riches of the glory of God and of Jesus Christ.... {TMK 7.2} Christ has said: “If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink” (John 7:37). Have you exhausted the fountain? No, for it is inexhaustible. Just as soon as you feel your need, you may drink, and drink again. The fountain is always full. And when you have once drunk of that fountain you will not be seeking to quench your thirst from the broken cisterns of this world; you will not be studying how you can find the most pleasure, amusement, fun, and frolic. No, because you have been drinking from the stream which makes glad the city of God. Then your joy will be full, for Christ will be in you.1 {TMK 7.3}
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Why the King James Version is Superior...
[Re: Johann]
#155876
09/06/13 10:02 PM
09/06/13 10:02 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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The more closely God’s Word is searched, and the better understood, the more vividly will the student realize that there is, beyond, infinite wisdom, knowledge, and power.... {TMK 8.4}
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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