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Do We Have Free Will?
#156075
09/13/13 03:51 PM
09/13/13 03:51 PM
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I used this post to create a thread on the subject of free will.
Following along what Green posted in another thread, God told them not to eat the fruit from only one certain tree and told them what the consequence would be if they went against His will and ate the fruit from that particular tree.
God didn't want Adam & Eve to sin, however, they went contrary to what God didn't want them to do and chose to eat the fruit from that tree.
In other words, they chose their will over God's revealed will, which tells me that they had free will to the point that they were able to choose to go against God's revealed will, which constituted sin.
Last edited by Daryl; 09/14/13 01:23 AM. Reason: Created a new thread out of this post.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: Daryl]
#156076
09/13/13 03:56 PM
09/13/13 03:56 PM
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Free will is the power to choose to go in accordance with God's will or against His will.
Consequence is the result of going in accordance with God's will or against His will.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: Daryl]
#156077
09/13/13 03:58 PM
09/13/13 03:58 PM
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Elle,
Are you, therefore, saying that it was God's intention for Adam and Eve to sin and consequently for all of us to sin?
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: Daryl]
#156088
09/13/13 11:12 PM
09/13/13 11:12 PM
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Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019
2500+ Member
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
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Daryl, your 3 posts above is all related to freewill. Isn't it going quite a bit out of topic? Already I have answered the freewill question with a general statement to Kland and some to Green. Details study from the Bible will only show that, but if you want to get into much details; then why don't you open another discussion about it and provide a link in this discussion to it. Or if you want, I'll answer your questions here. But these discussion typically gets very long and I see that it will deviate much from this discussion.
Blessings
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: Elle]
#156090
09/14/13 12:34 AM
09/14/13 12:34 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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I think freewill has much to do with this form of universalism. We will necessarily run into it now and then, but I think it's a good idea to have a separate thread so that they don't get unnecessarily intertwined.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: asygo]
#156091
09/14/13 01:17 AM
09/14/13 01:17 AM
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I also think freewill has a lot to do with this thread topic, however, I am also OK with starting a new thread on the subject of freewill. I think freewill has much to do with this form of universalism. We will necessarily run into it now and then, but I think it's a good idea to have a separate thread so that they don't get unnecessarily intertwined.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: Daryl]
#156092
09/14/13 01:27 AM
09/14/13 01:27 AM
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Elle and others:
I have created a new thread out of these posts, therefore, this newly created thread is now on topic, therefore, Elle can now respond to these posts separate from the other thread.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: Elle]
#156218
09/16/13 02:43 PM
09/16/13 02:43 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
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They never had a choice on the first time around. If the Lord didn’t open their ears or didn’t helkuo(Greek for drag) them in the first place, they never had the opportunity. That’s why they were still in the Adamic covering – death and couldn't observe the first passover. If they would have been justified like the believers, they wouldn’t of been covered in death. The Lord planned to give them a second opportunity according to His laws, because He knows how to work all things together. Elle, What I hear you saying is that they never had the opportunity therefore the Lord gave them a second opportunity. Is that what you meant? There is a will of man, but it is not free and far from it. It is extremely limited. Man's will is under subjections by so many factors..world, community, home, etc... events, weather, age, circumstances, upbringing, authorities, health, .... the list is very long what limits our will. Then beyond all of that, the will of the Lord is above all factors and He controls many events and factors that He can change all wills of men very quickly.
And here I hear you saying man has a will but it's not free. What alternatives for that will is there if it's not free? We are having this discussion right now. We do not know how much the Lord was behind the events in bringing us here versus our own will. I'm not saying man doesn't have a will but I wouldn't call it free when it is around 90% limited. But you may call your 10% what you can control as free is you want...But if your will conflicts with the Lord's plan...Guess whose going to have his will done?...It will always be the Lords will that will be done, and not yours.
So when Daryl, Green, I, and others object to you, then that will, that objection is 90% limited. We only control 10%, but even that, the Lord is controlling that when it conflicts with the Lord's plan. Therefore the Lord is objecting to you, Elle.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: kland]
#156327
09/18/13 02:33 PM
09/18/13 02:33 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
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In R. v. Big M Drug Mrt, Ltd. Chief Justice Brian Dickson wrote,
"If a person is compelled by the state or the will of another to a course of action or inaction which he would not otherwise have chosen, he is not acting of his own volition and he cannot be said to be truly free."
Referenced in Liberty.
I think that formalizes the definition of what a number of us have been saying.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: kland]
#156332
09/18/13 04:01 PM
09/18/13 04:01 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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.But if your will conflicts with the Lord's plan... Guess whose going to have his will done?...It will always be the Lords will that will be done, and not yours. If a woman is raped, this it is clearly god's will.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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