HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,617
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 21
kland 9
Daryl 4
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
Daryl
Daryl
Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 25,122
Joined: July 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
5 registered members (Karen Y, Nadi, dedication, 2 invisible), 3,389 guests, and 22 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Do We Have Free Will? [Re: APL] #156361
09/19/13 04:57 PM
09/19/13 04:57 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
I will be able to comment on the posts next week; but keep up the discussion.

Blessings!


Blessings
Re: Do We Have Free Will? [Re: Elle] #156369
09/20/13 01:23 AM
09/20/13 01:23 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
God has obviously shown Ellen White that man has free will:
Quote:
Lucifer took the position that as a result of the law of God, wrong existed in heaven and on this earth. This brought against God’s government the charge of being arbitrary. But this is a falsehood, framed by the author of all falsehoods. God’s government is a government of free-will, and there is no act of rebellion or obedience which is not an act of free-will. {ST, June 5, 1901 par. 4}


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Do We Have Free Will? [Re: Daryl] #156378
09/20/13 04:08 AM
09/20/13 04:08 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
Christianity has debated this question for centuries.

Calvinism teaches the Sovereignty of God pre determined who will be saved and who won't be saved and His irresistible grace will cause the elect to respond and be saved, while the lost are left to their damnation.

In opposition Arminianism taught that mankind had the choice. God supplies salvation, a person accepts or rejects it.

The Calvinistic view made God rather arbitrary and unfair, as to why a God of love would deliberately pre-determine some to suffer damnation with no regard to their choice in the matter.

From this arose Universalism -- which teaches that since "the Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" and since God pre-determines with no regard to human choice who will be saved, therefore all would be saved in the end.

But scripture clearly teaches that not all are saved.
Matt. 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.

Adventists have a strong leaning to Arminianism. The whole Great Controversy Theme is based on the premise that mankind is given the choice.

It's the only view that takes into account ALL aspects -- God's grace and the Holy Spirits work upon hearts and minds, and mankinds choice to respond and follow, or rebel and wallow in sin. It answers as to why some are saved and some are lost even though God wants all to repent and be saved, yet many refuse.

God does not want a universe full of controlled beings, He wants beings who love and obey because they love doing so with all their hearts and minds -- of their own free will.

Re: Do We Have Free Will? [Re: dedication] #156380
09/20/13 04:44 AM
09/20/13 04:44 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
CHRIST DIED FOR ALL

2 Tim 2:6 Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all,
Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,..that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

SALVATION OFFERED TO ALL

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

THE CALL TO GO OUT TO ALL
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

THE HOLY SPIRIT (the spirit of Grace) to work on all
1 Cor. 12:7 The manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
Rev. 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.

THE CHOICE IS OURS
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


All are called

Those who respond are chosen (adopted) -- they are the elect --sons and daughters of God.
They are lead by the Holy Spirit and as they willingly follow and accept Christ as their Lord and Savior they are changed from "glory to glory".

Those who refuse the call and resist the pleadings of the Holy Spirit are at the mercy of evil angels who lead them deeper into sin and destruction. Sin is slavery.

Responding to Christ is freedom.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Re: Do We Have Free Will? [Re: Daryl] #156855
10/05/13 06:39 AM
10/05/13 06:39 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Sorry for the delay. I will start at the top with Daryl’s statement and work my way down.
Originally Posted By: Daryl
Free will is the power to choose to go in accordance with God's will or against His will.

Consequence is the result of going in accordance with God's will or against His will.

Daryl what you say above has some truth but is misleading. I would restate as the following : Man’s will was given some authority, but not sovereignty. The sovereign will(self-derived) of the Lord is more powerful than man’s will(no matter how large the authority given by the Lord).

While we may sell ourself to sin(or "to the devil"), we do not have the authority to do so in perpetuity. The Lord reserve sovereignty over any of His creation as OWNER as stated in Lev 25:23 the land could not be sold forever. His Sovereign will is written in the plan of salvation by which we find Him being “slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8). In this statement alone, we find that the Lord took the responsibility of all of His creation from the beginning. However, this does not mean He will take SOLE responsibility of all sin. He gave man authority, and will hold him responsible for the authority given under him. So we see man will be judge by his works(Rev 20:12,13) His judgment will be according to the sin commited and to the prescribed restitution described in His laws and will be conducted in the manner described in the Law of Jubilee and other scriptures. In this we see that the ultimate responsibility of all sins rest on the creator and He knows how to correct man and all the nations.

Judgment prove that man has authority but to say he has "free will" in the way to say that man's choice overrides the Lord's sovereign plan is not true.

We need to take all of scriptures into account to really understand the truth of the matter. If we put any scriptures aside, we then start to fabricate our own “truth”. I’m sure no one wants to do that here.

How Free is Man’s Will?
Man has a will, but it is not “free”. Man’s will is always subject to other people in authority above us, to society expectations, to world events, etc….And the Lord will override our will whenever He pleases. Yes we may "rebell" and reap consequences from it, but this does not prove we are "free". I'll come to this later.

Basically we are not as “free” as we perveive to be by far. In our little imagination to stroke our ego, the “old man” wants to view himself “free”, but that is far from plain reality.

Reality is man’s will is easily manipulated by many factors beyond his control. To start we had no say in being born or into what family, race, country, or religion. After that, throughout our upbringing when our mind is being shaped and habits are formed; we are taught the will of others – especially the parent. Their guiding and teaching manipulates our will and shapes it according to their will. After this, children go to school where their will is further manipulated by teachers and their peers. Then the will of the government, who shape school curriculum, manipulate children to conform to their standard of behavior.

So what we perceive as our “free will” is actually the sum of millions of manipulations that shaped the subconscious mind while growing up. Then these determine our ability to discern and make decisions throughout life.

Now, while parents, teachers, friends, social pressure, etc… manipulates us, what about the Lord. Does He manipulate us in any manner, or does He remain aloof while men and women do all of the manipulation? The Lord does His level of manipulation also. So this concept that man has “free will” is a deception created ideology by man that #1 is not realistic and #2 is not Biblical.

Now let's look what the Bible says which will show us the real reality of this.


Blessings
Re: Do We Have Free Will? [Re: Elle] #156948
10/08/13 03:43 PM
10/08/13 03:43 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
I'm not that good in winnowing doublespeak. Someone else needs to help out here. There seems to be a mixing of definitions. A definition of free will needs to be agreed upon so it doesn't jump all over the place.

Re: Do We Have Free Will? [Re: kland] #156954
10/08/13 08:07 PM
10/08/13 08:07 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
Free will
when referring to salvation this is understood in light of the controversy taking place between God's kingdom and Satan's kingdom.

In one sense Elle is right -- we really are never totally free, for the person who choses to rebel against God becomes ensnared in Satan's traps. God in His great love seeks to free us from Satan's traps and bring us back into His keeping.
Romans 6 shows we are either slaves to sin or servants of righteousness.
We can't will ourselves free from the cruel master of sin, only by coming to Christ can we find that freedom.


So Christ came to give us the freedom to choose!
For God - salvation is all about free choice.

The concept that God will over ride a person's choices to live in sin is true ONLY if the person himself/herself responds to God's offer and His constant calls to return. Anyone trapped in Satan's addictions and traps can depend upon God's great power to break those chains and bring them to Himself.

But God will NOT force anyone to love and obey Him for eternity who choses not to do so.

So free choice means choosing to submit oneself to God and begging Him to break the chains and bonds of sin.

It is God who has given sinners hopelessly enslaved in sin, the freedom to choose release, and has promised to save all who call upon His name for that release.

Re: Do We Have Free Will? [Re: dedication] #156979
10/09/13 05:16 PM
10/09/13 05:16 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
So let's have a clear and concise definition of free will that everyone can agree what is being talked about.

Re: Do We Have Free Will? [Re: kland] #156983
10/09/13 11:45 PM
10/09/13 11:45 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
So let's have a clear and concise definition of free will that everyone can agree what is being talked about.
Go ahead kland give a definition. Please be specific in your definition what type of free will you have when servant to Christ or slaves to satan. One quote I agree with EGW, is she said there's no middle ground.


Blessings
Re: Do We Have Free Will? [Re: Elle] #157040
10/11/13 02:39 AM
10/11/13 02:39 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
Free will?
It's not free will according to the world's definition.

God's freedom of choice means giving us the freedom to choose Who will be our Lord and master.

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 05/03/24 02:55 AM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 04/30/24 10:34 PM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by Daryl. 04/05/24 12:04 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 07:26 PM
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 10:09 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 05/02/24 08:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by dedication. 04/22/24 06:04 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1