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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: dedication]
#157054
10/11/13 11:45 AM
10/11/13 11:45 AM
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Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
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Free will? It's not free will according to the world's definition.
God's freedom of choice means giving us the freedom to choose Who will be our Lord and master. Do you believe that man stand in a middle ground where they can choose to serve the Lord or the devil? Do you believe what scripture says about the unbeliever (or the natural man)? “ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.” 1Cr 2:14 ” ...There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God, ...” Rom 3:10-12 Then if the natural man does not understand the Lord and think all his stuff is foolish, and does not seek the Lord??? then how can they choose to serve him and how does the believer have ever come to choose to serve Him?
Blessings
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: dedication]
#157055
10/11/13 01:04 PM
10/11/13 01:04 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
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Elle, how about this: God's freedom of choice means giving us the freedom to choose Who will be our Lord and master.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: kland]
#157061
10/11/13 02:07 PM
10/11/13 02:07 PM
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Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
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Elle, how about this:[quote=dedication]God's freedom of choice means giving us the freedom to choose Who will be our Lord and master. Do you believe that man stand in a middle ground where they can choose to serve the Lord or the devil? Do you believe what scripture says about the unbeliever (or the natural man)? “ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.” 1Cr 2:14 ” ...There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God, ...” Rom 3:10-12 Then if the natural man does not understand the Lord and think all his stuff is foolish, and does not seek the Lord??? then how can they choose to serve him and how does the believer have ever come to choose to serve Him?
Blessings
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: Elle]
#157087
10/12/13 12:45 AM
10/12/13 12:45 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Satan has done his best to bind us and enslave us. It is true that without God's intervention there would be no choice.
But God has intervened -- PRAISE HIS NAME! Satan is defeated, and God's spirit is wooing everyone to come to Him. "Whosoever will may come." The invitation goes out to all.
Rev. 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
It's up to us whether or not we will respond and allow the Holy spirit to change our lives.
Song
Out of my bondage sorrow and night, Jesus I come, Jesus I come Into Thy freedom, gladness and light, Jesus I come to Thee Out of my sickness, into Thy health, Out of life's storms and into they calm. Out of my sin and into Thyself, Jesus I come to Thee.
Out of my shameful failure and loss, Jesus I come, Jesus I come Into the glorious gain of Thy cross, Jesus I come to Thee Out of my earth's sorrows into Thy balm, Out of despair into raptures above Out of distress to jubilant psalm, Jesus I come to thee.
Out of the fear and dread of the tomb, Jesus I come, Jesus I come Into the joy and light of Thy home, Jesus, I come to Thee Out of the depths of ruin untold, Into the peace of Thy sheltering fold, Ever They glorious face to behold, Jesus I come to Thee.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: dedication]
#157120
10/13/13 03:38 AM
10/13/13 03:38 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
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One more stanza. Out of unrest and arrogant pride Jesus I come, Jesus I come Into Thy blessed will to abide, Jesus I come, Jesus I come Out of myself to dwell in Thy love, Out of my want into riches above, Jesus I come to Thee.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: dedication]
#157121
10/13/13 03:56 AM
10/13/13 03:56 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
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This freedom of choice that God gives is one of the biggest reasons why Christ will NEVER set up a kingdom in which He forces everyone to submit to His laws and His reign.
Through His great gift of grace and redemption and the ceaseless efforts of the Holy Spirit to draw all men to Him, Christ has opened the door of CHOICE -- "Whosoever will may come" the invitation is given to all.
And all who respond will inherit the kingdom -- yes a kingdom on this earth AFTER it is completely cleansed of sin and made new.
The choice is to accept the call of the Author of Life, peace, love and everlasting joy. He will place His spirit in us and transform our lives into noble, loving Christ like characters -- if we are willing. (see Isaiah 1:18-19 Ezekiel 36:26-27)
THE OTHER CHOICE -- to remain shackled in the prison house of sensual pleasures, arrogant pride, exploitation, misery, death.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: Elle]
#157201
10/15/13 03:08 PM
10/15/13 03:08 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
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Then if the natural man does not understand the Lord and think all his stuff is foolish, and does not seek the Lord??? then how can they choose to serve him and how does the believer have ever come to choose to serve Him? Why is the natural man natural and not spiritual?
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: dedication]
#157202
10/15/13 03:15 PM
10/15/13 03:15 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
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This freedom of choice that God gives is one of the biggest reasons why Christ will NEVER set up a kingdom in which He forces everyone to submit to His laws and His reign.
It seems as if Elle has disagreed with your definition. Would you say free choice can only be choice that is not coerced, a choice that is freely made, a choice that one wants to make? For instance, if I want to stand naked in the middle of the Interstate at midnight and shoot off bottle rockets knowing full well that I would be arrested, I can still choose to do that. But would you call that free choice? Most people do not do that, even if they wanted to, because they do not really feel they have free choice. Legal or otherwise.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: kland]
#157204
10/15/13 05:16 PM
10/15/13 05:16 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
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The problem is people tend to look at the result of the choice as if it were coerced. We have the freedom to jump off a cliff and experience the thrill of a free fall, but the end thereof is death. Would you say the admonition NOT to jump off a cliff is coercion?
In the same sense God admonished Adam and Eve not to jump into Satan's territory and follow his suggestion (eat of the tree of good and evil) and experience the thrill of sin cutting themselves off from the source of life.
But they did anyway. Sin by its very nature leads to death, yet people think that just because it usually doesn't happen immediately that the end result is a coercion device from God.
In reality -- since Adam mankind in totality jumped off the cliff and are hurtling to certain destruction, BUT GOD prepared for everyone a life saving "parachute" (symbolically) in Christ, and urges us to "pull the cord" of faith and He will lift us up unto high ground once again and we can have life eternal.
But he gives us that choice -- we can continue hurtling in the fall of sin unto death, or pull that cord of faith and be rescued. In fact, God has sent His Holy Spirit to urge us to pull that cord -- it is His spirit calling us imploring us. However, even if we pull the cord we still have the choice to let go and continue the fall to certain death.
This whole 6000 years of sin is allowed to reveal to all the reality that sin is in verity jumping off the cliff unto certain destruction and death. Sin has already shown it's destructive, terrible nature, however many people still aren't convinced of its evil. In the last days God will remove His restraining hand on the whole reality of sin and allow it to show to all the full horror and destructiveness of its nature -- that's the great time of trouble such as never was. Sin will be allowed to show it's deadly, terrible, destructive reality. But thankfully God will end the terror.
It is God that has made available the choice for everyone. Do we want to pull the cord of faith and be rescued -- be lifted up out of sin unto the paths of righteousness and life in Christ, or are we determined to experience the thrills of sin and ignore the reality that jumping off a cliff, no matter how thrilling, ends in death. And that death isn't just the sleep of the first death, it is eternal death.
In the kingdom to come everyone there will serve God BECAUSE THEY LOVE HIM AND freely follow Him with joy and praise. God will never force the nations to give up sin. After this probationary life is over, there is no second choice.
Even at the second resurrection when the lost are raised, they will reveal that their choice is to remove God from His throne and restore satan as the "prince of this world". In an army as numerous as the sands of the sea they connive to conquer God's city and take it over. Yes, God will reveal to them how He worked tirelessly to rescue them, but they would not come, and they will acknowledge that God did everything He could for their rescue, but their hearts remain unchanged -- they loved sin and their resurrection just reveals the state of their hearts as they march on God's city with all the implements of war that satan has caused mankind to invent. When God's holy glory is unveiled and shines forth, sin is consumed. All the weapons of war explode in one horrific explosion, the whole earth is rocked to its foundations and in flames.
Only those who have forsaken sin and abide in the city of God are sheltered in the final conflagration.
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Re: Do We Have Free Will?
[Re: dedication]
#157286
10/17/13 09:21 PM
10/17/13 09:21 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
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The problem is people tend to look at the result of the choice as if it were coerced. We have the freedom to jump off a cliff and experience the thrill of a free fall, but the end thereof is death. Would you say the admonition NOT to jump off a cliff is coercion?
I would say knowing the result of what happens is coercion. But I don't think this is what I'm talking about. It would be that someone admonishes you not to jump off the cliff, but if you do, they will shoot you in the head. They will shoot you before you reach the bottom. Do you see a difference between cause and effect versus another person doing the coercion?
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