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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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Time of trouble = Jacob's Trouble
#156533
09/24/13 02:38 AM
09/24/13 02:38 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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His child: Would you say that the judgment of dead and living has ended and time of Jacob's trouble has begun?
Green Cochoa: I would not say that, His Child.
Daryl: I wouldn't say that either.
His child: why would anyone believe that the time of Jacob's Trouble has not started?
gordonb1: A valid but sobering question HC.
Green Cochoa: HC: "A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble." -- EGW.
Green Cochoa: Has such a decree gone forth?
Green Cochoa: If it's easy to be mistaken about something like this now, imagine when our books are removed from us. Now is the time to study, learn, and memorize.
His child: "time of trouble, which is to increase until the end" EW 253.1 "I saw the time of trouble, such as never was,--Jesus told me it was the time of Jacob's trouble" Broadside1, April 6, 1846 par. 8
Daryl: As these chats here are only temporary and eventually drop from this Chat Box, you may wish to create a thread instead of chatting about it here.
His child: Here is the thread
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: Time of trouble = Jacob's Trouble
[Re: His child]
#156538
09/24/13 02:46 AM
09/24/13 02:46 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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His child: Would you say that the judgment of dead and living has ended and time of Jacob's trouble has begun? From my study, the Time of Trouble that Jesus calls the time of Jacob's trouble began yom kippur (9/21/13). The time of trouble peeks when the Sunday law is passed. But when Jacob's time of trouble began, he was fleeing his uncle Laban, who was perusing him. "time of trouble, which is to increase until the end" EW 253.1 "I saw the time of trouble, such as never was,--Jesus told me it was the time of Jacob's trouble" Broadside1, April 6, 1846 par. 8 Laban would have taken everything back to his home and left jacob with nothing had god not appeared to him in a dream and told him not to speak good or ill toward Jacob. The time of Jacob's increased until Jacob spent the night wresting with the angel.
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: Time of trouble = Jacob's Trouble
[Re: His child]
#156539
09/24/13 02:51 AM
09/24/13 02:51 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,440
Canada
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Why would anyone say Jacob's time of trouble has already started?
Green C.has the right chronology.
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Re: Time of trouble = Jacob's Trouble
[Re: dedication]
#156541
09/24/13 03:09 AM
09/24/13 03:09 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,440
Canada
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I think we need to look at passages in their context. A quote out of context is not truth. "Jesus will step out from between the Father and man, and God will keep silence no longer; but pour out his wrath on those who have rejected his truth. ... The nations are now getting angry, but when our High Priest has finished his work in the Sanctuary, he will stand up, put on the garments of vengeance, and then the seven last plagues will be poured out. I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus’ work was done in the Sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous, and they thought that we had brought them down upon them, and if they could rid the earth of us, then the plagues would be stayed. A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble. EW 36 And in the following she is summarizing the FUTURE time. About four months since, I had a vision of events, all in the future. And I saw the time of trouble, such as never was,--Jesus told me it was the time of Jacob's trouble, and that we should be delivered out of it by the voice of God. {Broadside1, April 6, 1846} Trouble has been in the world since sin began. But when the Great time of trouble comes -- PROBATION is closed.
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Re: Time of trouble = Jacob's Trouble
[Re: dedication]
#156543
09/24/13 03:24 AM
09/24/13 03:24 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,440
Canada
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a decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment, and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death. Romanism in the Old World, and apostate Protestantism in the New, will pursue a similar course toward those who honor all the divine precepts. {GC88 615.1}
The people of God will then be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress described by the prophet as the time of Jacob's trouble. “Thus saith the Lord: We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.” “All faces are turned into paleness. Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it; it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.” [Jeremiah 30:5-7.] {GC88 616.1} Jacob's night of anguish, when he wrestled in prayer for deliverance from the hand of Esau, [Genesis 32:24-30.] represents the experience of God's people in the time of trouble.{GC88 616.2}
.. Satan had accused Jacob before the angels of God, claiming the right to destroy him because of his sin; he had moved upon Esau to march against him; and during the patriarch's long night of wrestling, Satan endeavored to force upon him a sense of his guilt, in order to discourage him, and break his hold upon God. Jacob was driven almost to despair; but he knew that without help from Heaven he must perish. He had sincerely repented of his great sin, and he appealed to the mercy of God. He would not be turned from his purpose, but held fast the Angel, and urged his petition with earnest, agonizing cries, until he prevailed. {GC88 618.1} As Satan influenced Esau to march against Jacob, so he will stir up the wicked to destroy God's people in the time of trouble. And as he accused Jacob, he will urge his accusations against the people of God.{GC88 618.2}
...
They afflict their souls before God, pointing to their past repentance of their many sins, and pleading the Saviour's promise, “Let him take hold of my strength, that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me.” [Isaiah 27:5.] Their faith does not fail because their prayers are not immediately answered. Though suffering the keenest anxiety, terror, and distress, they do not cease their intercessions. They lay hold of the strength of God as Jacob laid hold of the Angel; and the language of their souls is, “I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.” {GC88 619.3}
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Re: Time of trouble = Jacob's Trouble
[Re: dedication]
#156578
09/25/13 12:55 AM
09/25/13 12:55 AM
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As probation hasn't closed yet, the "Great time of trouble" hasn't started yet.
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Re: Time of trouble = Jacob's Trouble
[Re: Daryl]
#156586
09/25/13 02:33 AM
09/25/13 02:33 AM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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As probation hasn't closed yet, the "Great time of trouble" hasn't started yet. While this might be true, I think we will know less about when probation has closed than we will about the time of Jacob's trouble. "No man knoweth the day, nor the hour...." Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Time of trouble = Jacob's Trouble
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#156599
09/25/13 02:28 PM
09/25/13 02:28 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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The 144,000 will know when probation has closed because they will cease praying and laboring for the salvation of the wicked. They will cry unto Jesus to thrust in His sickle and reap. Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs. The Lord has shown me in vision, that Jesus rose up, and shut the door, and entered the Holy of Holies, at the 7th month 1844; but Michael's standing up (Daniel 12:1) to deliver his people, is in the future. {WLF 12.4}
This, will not take place, until Jesus has finished his priestly office in the Heavenly Sanctuary, and lays off his priestly attire, and puts on his most kingly robes, and crown, to ride forth on the cloudy chariot, to "thresh the heathen in anger," and deliver his people. {WLF 12.5}
Then Jesus will have the sharp sickle in his hand, (Revelation 14:14) and then the saints will cry day and night to Jesus on the cloud, to thrust in his sharp sickle and reap. {WLF 12.6}
This, will be the time of Jacob's trouble, (Jeremiah 30:5-8) out of which, the saints will be delivered by the voice of God. {WLF 12.7}
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Re: Time of trouble = Jacob's Trouble
[Re: His child]
#156615
09/25/13 05:25 PM
09/25/13 05:25 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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His child: Would you say that the judgment of dead and living has ended and time of Jacob's trouble has begun?
Green Cochoa: I would not say that, His Child.
Daryl: I wouldn't say that either.
His child: why would anyone believe that the time of Jacob's Trouble has not started?
gordonb1: A valid but sobering question HC.
Green Cochoa: HC: "A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble." -- EGW.
Green Cochoa: Has such a decree gone forth?
Green Cochoa: If it's easy to be mistaken about something like this now, imagine when our books are removed from us. Now is the time to study, learn, and memorize.
His child: "time of trouble, which is to increase until the end" EW 253.1 "I saw the time of trouble, such as never was,--Jesus told me it was the time of Jacob's trouble" Broadside1, April 6, 1846 par. 8
Daryl: As these chats here are only temporary and eventually drop from this Chat Box, you may wish to create a thread instead of chatting about it here.
His child: Here is the thread The prophetic time of "Jacob's Trouble" has passed, a LONG time ago, even before Christ. It is mentioned in Jer. 30 (esp. verse 7), a prophecy by Jeremiah the prophet of God concerning the events to happen just prior to the fall of Babylon and the return of the Jews to their homeland by the Cyrus decree. It was a prophecy written in a book at about the time they were taken captive when God was telling them that the captivity was going to be long, but eventually they were going to return. However, in the prophecy, God said they were going to experience a period of great fear and trepidation of being swept away in the tumult; but God was going to save them. You can see the entire prophecy in Jer. 29-30. Always remember: THE BIBLE INTERPRETS ITSELF! There is no need to push the words of men into its narrative. .... ..
Last edited by James Peterson; 09/25/13 05:39 PM.
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Re: Time of trouble = Jacob's Trouble
[Re: James Peterson]
#156633
09/26/13 12:50 AM
09/26/13 12:50 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,440
Canada
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There have been many, many times of trouble since sin began, including the fall of Jerusalem to Babylon.
However, the classical prophets, while predicting immediate events, and warning their own contemporary nation of the results of sin, also were given extended views to events well beyond the scope of their day.
Thus we are discussing the last great "Jacob's time of trouble". This time of trouble correlates with Daniel 12:1,2 -- after Jesus stands up to execute judgment, (probation has ceased, the plagues fall and evil is unleashed to fully exhibit itself) the world is plunged into a time of trouble such as never was before, and God's people will be delivered.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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