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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157165
10/14/13 04:22 PM
10/14/13 04:22 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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So, when we translate those words, since it was not the "words" that were inspired, we can just pick any word we like? I think you'd like to see things is the worst possible light, WHY? Is "bow down" really significantly different from "worship"? You seem to think it is a big deal, even if the Greek means bow down. As EGW says, "is it not the words of the Bible that are inspired". It is the thoughts brought to us by the Holy Spirit when we read. Is that not what we really need? YES! I'm not saying the NIV is superior to the KJV. I happen to like the AKJV. I also have many other translations that I read daily. It is not the words. EGW has given a good summary.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157166
10/14/13 05:32 PM
10/14/13 05:32 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
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Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Perhaps the error is in making an issue where there is none, or making a idol of particular English words. The words are not sacred. Is it really that obscure if one translation has "worship" and another has "bow down"? Which is an accurage translation of the original? The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen. Look at the different writers. {1SM 21.1}
It is not the words of the Bible that are inspired, but the men that were inspired. Inspiration acts not on the man's words or his expressions but on the man himself, who, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, is imbued with thoughts. But the words receive the impress of the individual mind. The divine mind is diffused. The divine mind and will is combined with the human mind and will; thus the utterances of the man are the word of God.-- Manuscript 24, 1886 (written in Europe in 1886). {1SM 21.2} So, when we translate those words, since it was not the "words" that were inspired, we can just pick any word we like? If so, why does God bother to give the "copyright" for the Book in its last chapter? Blessings, Green Cochoa. This is exactly where the problem is. I am in an area right now where a number of words can have the opposite meaning to to people who live across the river. You need more than a single word to get the right meaning. This will make it difficult for people who are too lazy to read more than some select quotations.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157177
10/14/13 11:11 PM
10/14/13 11:11 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Perhaps the error is in making an issue where there is none, or making a idol of particular English words. The words are not sacred. Is it really that obscure if one translation has "worship" and another has "bow down"? Which is an accurage translation of the original? The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen. Look at the different writers. {1SM 21.1}
Green, is this your reaction to what Ellen G White wrote? Did she turn off her inspiration when she wrote this?
It is not the words of the Bible that are inspired, but the men that were inspired. Inspiration acts not on the man's words or his expressions but on the man himself, who, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, is imbued with thoughts. But the words receive the impress of the individual mind. The divine mind is diffused. The divine mind and will is combined with the human mind and will; thus the utterances of the man are the word of God.-- Manuscript 24, 1886 (written in Europe in 1886). {1SM 21.2} So, when we translate those words, since it was not the "words" that were inspired, we can just pick any word we like? If so, why does God bother to give the "copyright" for the Book in its last chapter? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Johann]
#157178
10/14/13 11:21 PM
10/14/13 11:21 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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I do not know why my text is hidden, but I was asking you, Green, if you consider those words by Ellen White less inspired?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157200
10/15/13 02:34 PM
10/15/13 02:34 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
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God chose the name for Himself. While it may be true that some people say the Old Testament form of the word was "Joshua," this is not the Old Testament. This was the Greek word. Where does Mrs. White ever call Jesus Joshua? She doesn't.
Green, are you are talking about manuscripts or English? Do you name your children "Jesus?" I don't appreciate the Catholic custom of doing this sort of thing. To me it takes His name in vain. His name is special. Acts 4:12 tells us it's the only name that will save us. Do you know much about Spanish?
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: kland]
#157213
10/16/13 02:00 AM
10/16/13 02:00 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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kland,
I'm a fluent Spanish speaker. Are you?
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157285
10/17/13 09:12 PM
10/17/13 09:12 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
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So, know any Spanish names of "Jesus"?
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: kland]
#157287
10/17/13 09:21 PM
10/17/13 09:21 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
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And, are you are talking about manuscripts or English?
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: kland]
#157295
10/18/13 03:32 AM
10/18/13 03:32 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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kland,
Is your God multicultural? Does He accept you if you "mispronounce" His name because of speaking a language where it is said differently?
I ask because that is the tenor I get from your recent posts about this. In fact, the Greek DOES have the name "Jesus" in it, pronounced very similarly in every language. Some say "Jesus," some "Yaesu," some another way, but when Christ gave us the message that we are saved through His name, I trust that He did not expect us to use only the Greek spelling and pronunciation for it in order to be accepted with Him.
In Spanish, the word is "Jesús." Many children are given this name in the Catholic-Hispanic culture. To me, this is unfortunate. It is one thing to be called "Christian." It is another to call oneself "Christ."
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157300
10/18/13 03:55 AM
10/18/13 03:55 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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kland,
Is your God multicultural? Does He accept you if you "mispronounce" His name because of speaking a language where it is said differently?
I ask because that is the tenor I get from your recent posts about this. In fact, the Greek DOES have the name "Jesus" in it, pronounced very similarly in every language. Some say "Jesus," some "Yaesu," some another way, but when Christ gave us the message that we are saved through His name, I trust that He did not expect us to use only the Greek spelling and pronunciation for it in order to be accepted with Him.
In Spanish, the word is "Jesús." Many children are given this name in the Catholic-Hispanic culture. To me, this is unfortunate. It is one thing to be called "Christian." It is another to call oneself "Christ."
Blessings,
Green Cochoa. Jesus name was not a unique name in His day. Is that a problem? I don't think so.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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