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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157309
10/18/13 02:42 PM
10/18/13 02:42 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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Your recent posts have confused me (Green Cochoa) with Arnold (asygo). Not the first time. There is a more glaring error above which no one has commented on, and I'll just leave it. Is your comment on topic??? I have caught you in some glaring errors too, statements which you could not substantiate. Should you take a dose of your own advise? I have been the subject of your biting spirit on numerous occasions. But I guess a moderator that is OK? I like you quote very much! Are you asking yourself, " Am I in any way disregarding the divine precepts?". Thou shalt not kill is one of the divine precepts. This is a very broad precept, involving more that outright murder. In the end time, all of God's law will be under attack. That has been evident in this tread and I suspect that most do not even understand what they are doing! Do read what you bolded. Are you doing exactly that when you attribute attributes of Satan to the God of the Universe? Are we rationalizing the divine precepts? Surely execution of sinners is not murder! How else will we rid ourselves of sin? Surely war is a not murder! Surely we must defend self with carnal weapons! NO. Thank you Green for bringing this up!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157318
10/18/13 04:02 PM
10/18/13 04:02 PM
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SDA
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APL, did Moses sin when he obeyed Jesus' command to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157319
10/18/13 04:22 PM
10/18/13 04:22 PM
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M: The laws of most governments make a distinction. Does God's law?
A: All governments of this planet are of this world. God's kingdom is not of this world. I would not gauge how God acts by looking at the kingdoms of this world, of which all use carnel weapons, all use power over people. War is murder. This is a hard teaching for most Adventists. Particularly for the ones that must have weapons to protect themselves. See my quote on self-defense above. Jesus gave laws to Israel which required capital punishment. M: What is meant by "the same destructive power"?
A: HOW do evil angels exercise destructive power? When permitted, they use "the same destructive power" used by holy angels. How they use it varies depending on the commands of Jesus. For example: When Sennacherib, the haughty Assyrian, reproached and blasphemed God, and threatened Israel with destruction, "it came to pass that night, that the angel of the Lord went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand." {GC 511.3}
They are mighty, and they excel in strength. On one occasion, in obedience to the command of Christ, they slew in one night one hundred and eighty-five thousand men of the Assyrian army. They can, and will, soon visit the earth with judgments. In quick succession one angel after another will pour out vials of wrath upon the inhabitants of the earth. {ST, January 17, 1900 par. 10} "The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits." {GC 614.2} If, as some say, holy angels exercise "destructive power" by withdrawing their protection and allowing evil angels to wreak havoc - how, then, do evil angels exercise the same destructive power? Do they, like holy angels, withdraw their protection and allow some other entity to wreak havoc?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#157323
10/18/13 05:39 PM
10/18/13 05:39 PM
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SDA
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Jesus gave laws to Israel which required capital punishment. YES - and Israel rejected God as their leader. Do you agree or not? Do you understand God's permissive will? I've been trying to probe whether you did by bringing up divorce. But I don't think you understand it. Sennacherib army - - HOW did they die? Have you read all the Bible accounts on this topic. Read the account in 2 Kings 19, Isaiah 37, 2 Chronicles 32. I think I have gone over that before here. Take all the evidence together. Example of items to consider, Hezekiah was to block the water supplies. WHY? The people were not to till the land for 2 years after the attack. WHY? Why does God give us all these details in the Biblical account?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157324
10/18/13 05:47 PM
10/18/13 05:47 PM
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SDA
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APL, did Moses sin when he obeyed Jesus' command to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death? MM - to people sin today when they divorce? You seem to fail to see the connection...
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157325
10/18/13 06:20 PM
10/18/13 06:20 PM
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SDA
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APL, why do you think 185,000 soldiers died in one night?
Also, why do you think Jesus commanded Moses to stone to death the Sabbath-breaker?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#157326
10/18/13 06:21 PM
10/18/13 06:21 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
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Posts: 22,256
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"The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits." {GC 614.2} If, as some say, holy angels exercise "destructive power" by withdrawing their protection and allowing evil angels to wreak havoc - how, then, do evil angels exercise the same destructive power? Do they, like holy angels, withdraw their protection and allow some other entity to wreak havoc?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#157328
10/18/13 06:49 PM
10/18/13 06:49 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Posts: 6,368
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APL, why do you think 185,000 soldiers died in one night?
Also, why do you think Jesus commanded Moses to stone to death the Sabbath-breaker? Have you read all the related Bible texts on the Assyrian attack? The command to kill the Sabbath-breaker. Did God mete out the punishment Himself? WHY did God command the PEOPLE to carry out the execution? Were the people of Israel EVER supposed to fight? WHO was their direct leader? Should we have stonings in church today????
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157331
10/18/13 07:29 PM
10/18/13 07:29 PM
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SDA
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What about self-defense? Here is a quote from AT Jones: I enjoyed his thought flow. I may have to read more from him.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#157332
10/18/13 07:38 PM
10/18/13 07:38 PM
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SDA
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M: Soldiers in battle are not guilty of murder. Judges are not guilty of murder when a criminal is executed.
K: Green has been unable to present a distinction between murder and killing. Can you? The laws of most governments make a distinction. Does God's law? The only thing I would add to APL's response which I agree with would be to ask why does our church recommend conscientious objector for the military? A single angel destroyed all the first-born of the Egyptians and filled the land with mourning. When David offended against God by numbering the people, one angel caused that terrible destruction by which his sin was punished. The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere. {GC 614.2} What is meant by "the same destructive power"? Not sure what that has to do with making a distinction between murder and killing. Can you distinguish the difference? Green seems to be either unable or unwilling.
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