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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment
[Re: kland]
#157502
10/24/13 03:37 AM
10/24/13 03:37 AM
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OP
SDA
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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kland, You've cherry-picked a few statements that appear to support your perspective. There are many other statements that have a fuller balance than what these show by themselves when taken alone. These statements focused on disease. But she does not only recommend eggs to people who are diseased. If you read her writings with an unbiased mind, you would recognize this. While warnings have been given regarding the dangers of disease through butter, and the evil of the free use of eggs by small children, yet we should not consider it a violation of principle to use eggs from hens that are well cared for and suitably fed. Eggs contain properties that are remedial agencies in counteracting certain poisons. {9T 162.1} "Free use" would mean "liberal" or "abundant." She never entirely proscribes eggs for small children, but her counsels would definitely limit them to a moderate amount. Does this mean only for a weak or sickly child? Let me ask you, kland, would you think sunshine, or salt, or fresh fruit, or any similar healthful item was only good for you if you were sick? Suppose you accepted that attitude...you might be sick often. This very thought is evinced in the following statement: Some, in abstaining from milk, eggs, and butter, have failed to supply the system with proper nourishment, and as a consequence have become weak and unable to work. Thus health reform is brought into disrepute. The work that we have tried to build up solidly is confused with strange things that God has not required, and the energies of the church are crippled. But God will interfere to prevent the results of these too strenuous ideas. The gospel is to harmonize the sinful race. It is to bring the rich and poor together at the feet of Jesus. {TSDF 41.10} Who are the "some?" This is a big question. You would likely try to say that it is "some of those who abstained." But that adds to Mrs. White's words in a way that cannot be substantiated by this statement. It might instead mean that some had abstained and in doing so had brought weakness upon themselves because of their abstinence. In other words, the statement does not clarify if she meant all, most or some of those who abstained. If all or most, then it would be entirely unjustified to presume to say one should abstain. Nay, that eggs were expressly recommended by Mrs. White in certain of these cases of sickness goes to show that the imbalance and misunderstanding of the health message was already an issue in her day. She was required to recommend eggs to people who would not otherwise have accepted them. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment
[Re: APL]
#157505
10/24/13 06:34 AM
10/24/13 06:34 AM
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SDA
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Talk about playing with words....
How about Vegans and cervical cancer???? Bump for Green
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment
[Re: APL]
#157510
10/24/13 08:22 AM
10/24/13 08:22 AM
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OP
SDA
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APL,
The website that I originally found my information on has since been updated and it is no longer there. It was a statistic that came from the 1999 Meta Analysis as I have already said. I have no better link to that information than the one I have provided that gave a partial answer. I can assure you, however, that I have laid eyes on the very statistic I provided here, and I am telling you the source study of that statistic. You may be able to search and find it yourself on some other site or archives somewhere.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157542
10/24/13 06:08 PM
10/24/13 06:08 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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APL,
The website that I originally found my information on has since been updated and it is no longer there. It was a statistic that came from the 1999 Meta Analysis as I have already said. I have no better link to that information than the one I have provided that gave a partial answer. I can assure you, however, that I have laid eyes on the very statistic I provided here, and I am telling you the source study of that statistic. You may be able to search and find it yourself on some other site or archives somewhere.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa. IF you have read the links provided by you and me on this topic, you would have read that there was a disclaimer in your links that said that the data pertained to vegetarians - non-vegans. The AHS-2 data specifically looked at vegans and female cancers, specifically mentioning cervical cancer. Indeed, this is the only real study with significant numbers that address this issue.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment
[Re: APL]
#157546
10/24/13 09:35 PM
10/24/13 09:35 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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"Free use" would mean "liberal" or "abundant." She never entirely proscribes eggs for small children, but her counsels would definitely limit them to a moderate amount. Does this mean only for a weak or sickly child? Never? Never? EGW makes many recommendations on many topics. When she writes, "I was shown", I take more notice of what she was "shown". I have been shown the danger of families that are of an excitable temperament, the animal predominating. Their children should not be allowed to make eggs their diet, for this kind of food--eggs and animal flesh--feeds and inflames the animal passions. This makes it very difficult for them to overcome the temptation to indulge in the sinful practice of self-abuse, which in this age is almost universally practiced. This practice weakens the physical, mental, and moral powers and bars the way to everlasting life. {2MR 106.1} So Green, is it still "never'?????
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment
[Re: APL]
#157558
10/25/13 10:11 AM
10/25/13 10:11 AM
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OP
SDA
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The Orient
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APL, Is a "diet of eggs" the same meaning to you as occasional eggs? It isn't to me. Look at what she says in another statement. While warnings have been given regarding the dangers of disease through butter, and the evil of the free use of eggs by small children, yet we should not consider it a violation of principle to use eggs from hens that are well cared for and suitably fed. Eggs contain properties that are remedial agencies in counteracting certain poisons. {CD 352.4}
(1905) M.H. 320, 321
625. Those who live in new countries or in poverty-stricken districts where fruits and nuts are scarce, should not be urged to exclude milk and eggs from their dietary. It is true that persons in full flesh and in whom the animal passions are strong need to avoid the use of stimulating foods. Especially in families of children who are given to sensual habits, eggs should not be used. But in the case of persons whose blood-making organs are feeble,--especially if other foods to supply the needed elements cannot be obtained,-- milk and eggs should not be wholly discarded. Great care should be taken, however, to obtain milk from healthy cows and eggs from healthy fowls, that are well fed and well cared for; and the eggs should be so cooked as to be most easily digested. {CD 365.1} The question you must answer for intelligent minds like mine is why did Mrs. White say "free use" of eggs if she meant that children should never consume them at all? She had no need to qualify the amount of use of eggs if she had meant to prohibit them entirely. And what about those families who are not "given to sensual habits?" Why specify what kind of families if ALL small children are proscribed from eating eggs? Mrs. White was more balanced than many of her adherents. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157559
10/25/13 11:27 AM
10/25/13 11:27 AM
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In reading what Green has said on eating eggs (I have not read everything.) I am in general agreement with what he has said about eggs. However, I note the following: Again, APL, you are showing your inability to read for understanding. Your post demonstrates your level of studiousness and your willingness to misquote.
Yes, you have quoted exactly some of my words. But you have not done justice to what I was saying, for by leaving out a portion of what I said, you have twisted it to mean what you wish it had meant, and to say something that I never said nor intended to say. Here's what you did not quote: I would encourage Green to read the above as if it had been said to him. Sometimes what we say to others can well be directed to us.
Gregory
May God's will be done.
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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157560
10/25/13 02:56 PM
10/25/13 02:56 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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APL, Is a "diet of eggs" the same meaning to you as occasional eggs? It isn't to me. Look at what she says in another statement. While warnings have been given regarding the dangers of disease through butter, and the evil of the free use of eggs by small children, yet we should not consider it a violation of principle to use eggs from hens that are well cared for and suitably fed. Eggs contain properties that are remedial agencies in counteracting certain poisons. {CD 352.4}
(1905) M.H. 320, 321
625. Those who live in new countries or in poverty-stricken districts where fruits and nuts are scarce, should not be urged to exclude milk and eggs from their dietary. It is true that persons in full flesh and in whom the animal passions are strong need to avoid the use of stimulating foods. Especially in families of children who are given to sensual habits, eggs should not be used. But in the case of persons whose blood-making organs are feeble,--especially if other foods to supply the needed elements cannot be obtained,-- milk and eggs should not be wholly discarded. Great care should be taken, however, to obtain milk from healthy cows and eggs from healthy fowls, that are well fed and well cared for; and the eggs should be so cooked as to be most easily digested. {CD 365.1} The question you must answer for intelligent minds like mine is why did Mrs. White say "free use" of eggs if she meant that children should never consume them at all? She had no need to qualify the amount of use of eggs if she had meant to prohibit them entirely. And what about those families who are not "given to sensual habits?" Why specify what kind of families if ALL small children are proscribed from eating eggs? Mrs. White was more balanced than many of her adherents. Blessings, Green Cochoa. The point is, you said she never proscribed eggs. The quote I provided is an "I was shown" quote. In it, she included eggs and meat. Are you telling me that meat is OK?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157561
10/25/13 03:02 PM
10/25/13 03:02 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,431
Midland
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kland,
You've cherry-picked a few statements that appear to support your perspective.
Funny, I thought you were the one who cherry-picked the statements which I quoted from you. I was only showing your error. Is this another cherry-picked statement you wish to talk about? Some, in abstaining from milk, eggs, and butter, have failed to supply the system with proper nourishment, and as a consequence have become weak and unable to work. Thus health reform is brought into disrepute. The work that we have tried to build up solidly is confused with strange things that God has not required, and the energies of the church are crippled. But God will interfere to prevent the results of these too strenuous ideas. The gospel is to harmonize the sinful race. It is to bring the rich and poor together at the feet of Jesus. {TSDF 41.10} Maybe you are not familiar with comma constructs. The statement is: Some have failed to supply the system with proper nourishment. The comma clause describes what was left out and that some have failed to supply proper nourishment in its place. To Take the Place of Flesh Meat
(1905) M.H. 316, 317
492. When flesh food is discarded, its place should be supplied with a variety of grains, nuts, vegetables, and fruits, that will be both nourishing and appetizing. . . . The place of meat should be supplied with wholesome foods that are inexpensive.
Do you say flesh food should not be discarded? Or something should be supplied in it's place?
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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment
[Re: kland]
#157588
10/27/13 11:22 AM
10/27/13 11:22 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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I assure you that your ideas in regard to diet for the sick are not advisable. The change is too great. While I would discard flesh-meat as injurious, something less objectionable may be used, and this is found in eggs. Do not remove milk from the table or forbid it being used in the cooking of food. The milk used should be procured from healthy cows, and should be sterilized. {TSDF 120.11}
Letter 37, 1901
324. I have something to say in reference to extreme views of health reform. Health reform becomes health deform, a health destroyer, when it is carried to extremes. You will not be successful in sanitariums, where the sick are treated, if you prescribe for the patients the same diet you have prescribed for yourself and your wife. I assure you that your ideas in regard to diet for the sick are not advisable. The change is too great. While I would discard flesh meat as injurious, something less objectionable may be used, and this is found in eggs. Do not remove milk from the table or forbid its being used in the cooking of food. The milk used should be procured from healthy cows, and should be sterilized. {CD 202.4} Concerning flesh meat, we should educate the people to let it alone. Its use is contrary to the best development of the physical, mental, and moral powers. And we should bear a clear testimony against the use of tea and coffee. It is also well to discard rich desserts. Milk, eggs, and butter should not be classed with flesh meat. In some cases the use of eggs is beneficial. The time has not come to say that the use of milk and eggs should be wholly discarded. There are poor families whose diet consists largely of bread and milk. They have little fruit and cannot afford to purchase the nut foods. In teaching health reform, as in all other gospel work, we are to meet the people where they are. Until we can teach them how to prepare health reform foods that are palatable, nourishing, and yet inexpensive, we are not at liberty to present the most advanced propositions regarding health reform diet. {7T 134.6} Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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