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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: kland] #158965
12/04/13 06:48 PM
12/04/13 06:48 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Rick H
The King James Version has been a tried and true text that shows the truths of Adventism
Rick, you should only read the scriptures in Hebrew and Greek.
Not a bad idea, that is how Jerome was able to translate as he learned Hebrew and was able to compare as had fluency in Greek.

Last edited by Rick H; 12/05/13 12:24 PM.
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #158983
12/05/13 12:41 PM
12/05/13 12:41 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Florida, USA
The King James Bible states in 1st Timothy 3:16 that "GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH"; but the NIV waters it down to... 'he' was revealed but by not saying who, diminishing His deity and character..

Here is the NIV:
1 Timothy 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
"16 Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit,[a]was seen by angels,was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory."

and compare to the KJV which clearly declares Christ:
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
"16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Then we have in Philippians 2:6 of the NIV, Jesus is no longer EQUAL with God, but something else:

Philippians 2:6
New International Version (NIV)
"6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;"

and here is the KJV:
Philippians 2:6
King James Version (KJV)
"6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

Last edited by Rick H; 12/05/13 12:43 PM.
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #158984
12/05/13 01:43 PM
12/05/13 01:43 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
So why are you quoting the KJV and NIV instead of the Hebrew and Greek?

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: kland] #158990
12/05/13 04:37 PM
12/05/13 04:37 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Are Adventist doctrines so fragile that one can't find them in a version other than the KJV?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: APL] #158991
12/05/13 05:05 PM
12/05/13 05:05 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: APL
Are Adventist doctrines so fragile that one can't find them in a version other than the KJV?


Are we trying to see how close we can get to the edge of the cliff without falling off?

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
It was by deception that Satan seduced angels; thus he has in all ages carried forward his work among men, and he will continue this policy to the last. Should he openly profess to be warring against God and His law, men would beware; but he disguises himself, and mixes truth with error. The most dangerous falsehoods are those that are mingled with truth. It is thus that errors are received that captivate and ruin the soul. By this means Satan carries the world with him. But a day is coming when his triumph will be forever ended. {PP 338.3}

God's dealings with rebellion will result in fully unmasking the work that has so long been carried on under cover. The results of Satan's rule, the fruits of setting aside the divine statutes, will be laid open to the view of all created intelligences. The law of God will stand fully vindicated. It will be seen that all the dealings of God have been conducted with reference to the eternal good of His people, and the good of all the worlds that He has created. Satan himself, in the presence of the witnessing universe, will confess the justice of God's government and the righteousness of His law. {PP 338.4}

The time is not far distant when God will arise to vindicate His insulted authority. "The Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity." Isaiah 26:21. "But who may abide the day of His coming? and who shall stand when He appeareth?" Malachi 3:2. The people of Israel, because of their sinfulness, were forbidden to approach the mount when God was about to descend upon it to proclaim His law, lest they should be consumed by the burning glory of His presence. If such manifestations of His power marked the place chosen for the proclamation of God's law, how terrible must be His tribunal when He comes for the execution of these sacred statutes. How will those who have trampled upon His authority endure His glory in the great day of final retribution? The terrors of Sinai were to represent to the people the scenes of the judgment. The sound of a trumpet summoned Israel to meet with God. The voice of the Archangel and the trump of God shall summon, from the whole earth, both the living and the dead to the presence of their Judge. The Father and the Son, attended by a multitude of angels, were present upon the mount. At the great judgment day Christ will come "in the glory of His Father with His angels." Matthew 16:27. He shall then sit upon the throne of His glory, and before Him shall be gathered all nations. {PP 339.1}


From the above statements one might reasonably conclude that a tainted Bible is more dangerous than an openly spiritualistic book.

As an old saying goes...

"A tablespoon of wine in a barrel full of sewage is sewage. A tablespoon of sewage in a barrel full of wine is sewage." The problem with the latter is that someone might not realize they would get sick by drinking it--if they did not detect that the sewage had been added.

I want to drink of the pure water of life, untainted by sewage.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #158992
12/05/13 09:07 PM
12/05/13 09:07 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
EGW: "It is thus that errors are received that captivate and ruin the soul." Is the error that we can only use the KJV, as it certainly has captivated some. Are the problems with various translations? Yep! Including the KJV. EGW used other versions. How could she drink such sewage? The issue is not what YOU read, it is what others want to read that don't know the truth. Do you condemn them for using a modern version, or do you use that version to teach them the truth? Are SdA beliefs that fragile? I think NOT!


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: APL] #158994
12/06/13 12:41 AM
12/06/13 12:41 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
APL,

I want you to teach me where in the Bible I'm told to fast in order to be able cast out demons to relieve someone of demonic possession. Use your NIV.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #158995
12/06/13 12:48 AM
12/06/13 12:48 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
APL,

I want you to teach me where in the Bible I'm told to fast in order to be able cast out demons to relieve someone of demonic possession. Use your NIV.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Are you saved by works????


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: APL] #158997
12/06/13 01:14 AM
12/06/13 01:14 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
APL,

I want you to teach me where in the Bible I'm told to fast in order to be able cast out demons to relieve someone of demonic possession. Use your NIV.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Are you saved by works????


I'm saved by accepting, loving and following Jesus. What about you?

Jesus told His disciples to fast and pray in order to cast out some demons. But according to your Not-Inspired Version, Jesus didn't say any such thing. This is a doctrinal omission and a grave error.

Perhaps you have not dealt with anyone who was demon possessed. I have. It happens in the world still today. And I treasure the instructions of Jesus, because I have also had the same experience that the nine disciples had who asked Jesus how to do it. He told them to fast and pray.

Does your NIV teach this? Try to find this doctrinal truth in it. Then remember what the Bible says:

"If they speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them." If, therefore, your Bible has been purposely sliced and diced to remove a doctrine like this, it should be a big red flag. There is no light in it.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
...Playing fast and loose with truth, and dissembling to suit one's own selfish plans, means shipwreck of faith. "Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth." Ephesians 6:14. He who utters untruths sells his soul in a cheap market. His falsehoods may seem to serve in emergencies; he may thus seem to make business advancement that he could not gain by fair dealing; but he finally reaches the place where he can trust no one. Himself a falsifier, he has no confidence in the word of others. {AA 75.3}


Are we saved by works? That's a loaded question. We are saved by works--Christ's works. But we cannot be saved without our own works too.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #158998
12/06/13 01:17 AM
12/06/13 01:17 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
APL,

Please tell us where in your NIV one can find Jesus' instructions to fast and pray to cast out demons.

Is this doctrine too fragile in your Bible--so fragile that it has already been broken? Is it only in the KJV and not in your NIV?

You are the one who asked the question about the fragility of our doctrines. Please point us to where this truth can be found in the NIV.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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