APL, thank you for inserting your comments in the passage above. It helps me understand what you believe.


The expression "go up and take" includes armed attack.


I find it interesting you feel okay about Jesus killing His enemies (using the forces of nature, evil angels, or evil men) but you are uncomfortable with Him commanding His chosen people to wage war. Jesus promised to use hornets to drive out the Canaanites. But He never did. Why not? Instead, He commanded Moses and Joshua and the Judges to do it.

Jesus promised to use hornets to drive out the Canaanites. But He never did. Why not? Instead, He commanded Moses and Joshua and the Judges to do it.

MM - did you miss this part??? So terribly blinded had they become by transgression. The Lord had never commanded them to "go up and fight." [repeat - God did never said, go up and fight] It was not His purpose that they should gain the land by warfare [repeat - it was not God plan that they fight!], but by strict obedience to His commands. {PP 392.3}

#3423
yaw-rash', yaw-raysh'
A primitive root; to occupy (by driving out previous tenants, and possessing in their place); by implication to seize, to rob, to inherit; also to expel, to impoverish, to ruin: - cast out, consume, destroy, disinherit, dispossess, drive (-ing) out, enjoy, expel, X without fail, (give to, leave for) inherit (-ance, -or), + magistrate, be (make) poor, come to poverty, (give to, make to) possess, get (have) in (take) possession, seize upon, succeed, X utterly.

Ex 34:24 For I will cast out [3423] the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.

Lev 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out [3423] before you:

Ex 15:9 The enemy said, I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; my lust shall be satisfied upon them; I will draw my sword, my hand shall destroy [3423] them.

Due 28:42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume [3423].

M: Jesus promised to use hornets to drive out the Canaanites. But He never did. Why not? Instead, He commanded Moses and Joshua and the Judges to do it.

A: Yes, WHY NOT? Because the people rejected God. Their unbelief! This was a constant problem. Was it God's plan to send the people into the wilderness for 40 years? Nope. Why did they then spend 40 years there? Unbelief. Hardness of heart. Just as with divorce and polygamy.

The facts do not support your conclusion. When Jesus commanded Moses and Joshua and the Judges to attack His enemies not once did He send hornets. Your accusation He withheld hornets because of unbelief and hardened hearts is unwarranted. Moses and Joshua and the Judges were faithful and obedient - not hardened and unbelieving.

APL, please address 159093 and 95.

PS - Regarding 159094 please remember you agree Jesus commanded Moses, Joshua, and the Judges to kill criminals and combatants.

GC 544 is not an alternate description. It is identical to GC 672, 673:

1. They suffer punishment varying in duration and intensity, "according to their works," but finally ending in the second death. (GC 544)

2. Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished "according to their deeds." (GC 673)

[quote]Although the whole earth, with the exception of that portion where the city rests, will be wrapped in a sea of liquid fire, yet the city is preserved as was the ark, by a miracle of Almighty power. It stands unharmed amid the devouring elements. {7BC 986.5}

Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething lake of fire. It is the time of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men--"the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion." Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2}

Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, "The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon." {EW 294.1}

APL, do you believe the lake of fire is literal fire? Or, do you believe it is symbolic?