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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #160276
01/13/14 01:50 AM
01/13/14 01:50 AM
Daryl  Offline
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Posts: 25,122
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The Good News Bible says it this way:
Quote:
Job 1:16 Before he had finished speaking, another servant came and said, "Lightning struck the sheep and the shepherds and killed them all. I am the only one who escaped to tell you."

Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: jsot
Every story of fire coming down out of heaven is directly connected to judgment.
Job 1:16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and has burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell you.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #160278
01/13/14 02:45 AM
01/13/14 02:45 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
The crystal sea (lake of fire)

The brightness of His presence fills the City of God, and flows out beyond the gates, flooding the whole earth with its radiance. {GC 665.1}

The radiant brightness of God's presence flooding the whole the earth is the lake of fire.

Originally Posted By: APL
Murder makes the crystal sea become the lake of fire

“Every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.” “The indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter.” “Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.” Isaiah 9:5; Isaiah 34:2; Psalms 11:6, margin. Fire comes down from God out of heaven [APL: All natural protective laws have been rejected by the mob] . The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth’s surface seems one molten mass—a vast, seething lake of fire. It is the time of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men—“the day of the Lord’s vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion.” Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2}

Murder and self-acting nature turns the crystal sea into a lake of fire.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #160279
01/13/14 02:49 AM
01/13/14 02:49 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL, what is the lake of fire? It sounds like you are saying it is a mixture of 1) the radiant brightness of God's presence and 2) the blood of sinners.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #160297
01/13/14 05:15 PM
01/13/14 05:15 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man

You believe I do not know the difference between right and wrong because I believe Jesus can punish people in ways we cannot. The quote below affirms my belief. You have refused to address the quote. I also posted questions whose obvious answers affirm my belief. However, you believe they are off topic or off point. Why?

No, I believe you do not know the difference between right and wrong because you cannot define the difference. You only define the difference based upon who is doing the act which means you do not distinguish the difference of the act.

Quote:

Quote:
The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2}

You have yet to address this passage. Why not?

Because before we can discuss what the "punishment" of God is, we have to know whether an act is wrong or right in and of itself, not because some certain one is doing it.

Until you can distinguish between right and wrong, nothing else whatever APL, myself, or others say regarding any specific passage will make absolutely no sense to you because you believe God can do wrong acts, but call them right.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: jamesonofthunder] #160298
01/13/14 05:25 PM
01/13/14 05:25 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder

So since the question has been raised, let me ask you this... would you be embarassed if you saw that the wrath of God kills the wicked twice? Those who pierced Christ die three times.
No, you did not answer my question. But I'll answer yours. If I thought god would directly and intentionally cause pain, suffering, and death to people, whether once, twice, or three times, I would become the most vicious god-hating infidel and want nothing to do with him!


Quote:
The important thing is to not let symantics confuse the subject. Is the execution of judgment killing? Yes. Is it murder? NO!!! Men have no right to kill unless the law demands it, God is the perfect modeler of justice and mercy and those who trust Him trust His judgments because they are perfect.
Though you do not make the distinction between right and wrong, you can make the distinction between murder and killing?

Can you clearly and concisely distinguish between murder and killing? Green could not. Maybe you can? Distinguish it so that we can use that guideline to compare against anyone and be able to determine whether they killed or murdered.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: kland] #160344
01/14/14 05:54 PM
01/14/14 05:54 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2}

M: You have yet to address this passage. Why not?

K: Because before we can discuss what the "punishment" of God is, we have to know whether an act is wrong or right in and of itself, not because some certain one is doing it.
Until you can distinguish between right and wrong, nothing else whatever APL, myself, or others say regarding any specific passage will make absolutely no sense to you because you believe God can do wrong acts, but call them right.

The passage above defines right and wrong. It clearly says it is right for Jesus do something that would be wrong for us to do. For example, Jesus drowns and burns sinners. It is right. But it would be wrong for us to do it. So, as you can see, it makes all the difference in world who does what as to whether or not it is right or wrong.

Another example, it is right for you to spank your children when they deserve it. But it would be wrong for me to do it.

Another example, it was wrong for King Saul not to kill King Agag. And it was right for Samuel to do it.

Another example, it was right for Jesus to burn Nadab and Abihu to death. But it would have been wrong for Moses to do it.

Another example, it was right for Jesus to burn the two bands of fifty to death. But it would have been wrong for Elijah to do it.

Once again, as you can see, contrary to your belief, it matters very much who is doing what as to whether or not the act itself is right or wrong.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #160349
01/14/14 10:03 PM
01/14/14 10:03 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
So, you are saying there is no right or wrong acts. Focus on "acts".

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: kland] #160355
01/15/14 02:38 AM
01/15/14 02:38 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Yes, there are things even God cannot do. Acts that are wrong. For example, God cannot act selfishly. But the things I posted above make it clear there are acts Jesus can do that would be wrong for us to do. You seem to reject this truth. Your list of acts God cannot do includes things He clearly does.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #160396
01/15/14 02:32 PM
01/15/14 02:32 PM
K
kland  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
Why is acting selfishly wrong? What is the standard to determine that it's wrong?

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: kland] #160402
01/15/14 04:58 PM
01/15/14 04:58 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Selfishness is the root of all sinning. Jesus set the standard. The law reflects it. Jesus employs fire and water to kill sinners. He also commands holy angels and righteous people to kill criminals and combatants. He even uses His enemies to kill sinners.

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