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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #161440
02/08/14 01:24 AM
02/08/14 01:24 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Probation Closes When the Sealing Is Finished.
Just before we entered it [the time of trouble], we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the four angels cease to hold the four winds. And I saw famine, pestilence and sword, nation rose against nation, and the whole world was in confusion.—The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 7:968 (1846).

I saw angels hurrying to and fro in heaven. An angel with a writer’s inkhorn by his side returned from the earth and reported to Jesus that his work was done, and the saints were numbered and sealed. Then I saw Jesus, who had been ministering before the ark containing the ten commandments, throw down the censer. He raised His hands, and with a loud voice said, “It is done.“—Early Writings, 279 (1858).
Only a moment of time, as it were, yet remains. But while already nation is rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom, there is not now a general engagement. As yet the four winds are held until the servants of God shall be sealed in their foreheads. Then the powers of earth will marshal their forces for the last great battle.—Testimonies for the Church 6:14 (1900).

An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.” Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands, and with a loud voice says, “It is done.”—The Great Controversy, 613 (1911). {LDE 229.3}

You really should do some background before putting yourself out there so far, it makes you look foolish.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #161441
02/08/14 01:26 AM
02/08/14 01:26 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication


I simply don't believe the sealing happens at the same point in time as the close of probation which takes place when Christ leaves the sanctuary.



Probation Closes When the Sealing Is Finished.
Just before we entered it [the time of trouble], we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the four angels cease to hold the four winds. And I saw famine, pestilence and sword, nation rose against nation, and the whole world was in confusion.—The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 7:968 (1846).

I saw angels hurrying to and fro in heaven. An angel with a writer’s inkhorn by his side returned from the earth and reported to Jesus that his work was done, and the saints were numbered and sealed. Then I saw Jesus, who had been ministering before the ark containing the ten commandments, throw down the censer. He raised His hands, and with a loud voice said, “It is done.“—Early Writings, 279 (1858).
Only a moment of time, as it were, yet remains. But while already nation is rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom, there is not now a general engagement. As yet the four winds are held until the servants of God shall be sealed in their foreheads. Then the powers of earth will marshal their forces for the last great battle.—Testimonies for the Church 6:14 (1900).

An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.” Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands, and with a loud voice says, “It is done.”—The Great Controversy, 613 (1911). {LDE 229.3}

Dedication; You really should do some background before putting yourself out there so far, it makes you look like your faith is not as established as you make it sound.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #161492
02/10/14 02:33 AM
02/10/14 02:33 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
Originally Posted By: dedication


I simply don't believe the sealing happens at the same point in time as the close of probation which takes place when Christ leaves the sanctuary.



Probation Closes When the Sealing Is Finished.


Exactly -- when Christ leaves the sanctuary and probation closes, the sealing is FINISHED.

The writings say it like I believe it!

The sealing takes place before probation closes -- that is God's saints settle firmly into truth and into Christ.

Quote:
"An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.” The Great Controversy, 613


Probation doesn't close until the final test (Sunday vs Saturday) has been brought upon the world, and all who prove themselves loyal received the seal.

Quote:
" The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes, for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided.--2SM 81 (1890).


The sealing work is in progress right now. It is a process by the Holy Spirit leading and molding our lives. But probation does not close till after the image of the beast is formed and God's people are tested.

Those that prove themselves loyal are SEALED. The sealing process is complete after the test, not before.
The voice "It is Done" marks the close of probation for the world. Christ leaves the sanctuary. The plagues come after Christ leaves the sanctuary and probation is closed.


There will be trouble before (some call it the little time of trouble) while Christ is still in the sanctuary and probation is still open. (See Early Writings 85, 86)




While those who know the truth but have resisted the Holy Spirit in their lives prior to the outpouring of the latter rain will not receive the latter rain and thus will not be able to stand --
They resisted the sealing process, they will "fail" the test, and will not be sealed.

That is not the same as this false idea that probation closes for the church before Christ leaves the sanctuary and probation really closes.

The truth is that there are many individuals in the church who will "miss out" on being sealed, for they rejected the sealing work of the Holy Spirit in their lives, and so the Holy Spirit cannot fill them at the latter rain and carry them through; while the false idea is teaching a generalized early close of probation for everyone regardless of their prior experience and opportunities who happened to have their names on the church book.








Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment? [Re: dedication] #161550
02/10/14 07:42 PM
02/10/14 07:42 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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I agree with most of what you have said dedication, my point was, since the 144,000 stand before the world and pronounce the loud cry, calling the rest of the faithful out of the fallen churches, and Mrs White says "only one in twenty" in the SDA church will be prepared for that time, then what happens to the rest of the SDA church when the Spirit has been poured out? Do they continue to have an oportunity to repent? Or are they shaken out? Obviously the other churches have not been fully condemned at that point because the cry of the saints is for them to come out of Babylon. So there had to be a point in time that had come and past for the SDA church to be individually prepared, and the door would then be shut for them at that time.

"It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner.—Christian Service, 41 (1893). {LDE 172.1}

There is a lot of biblical and Spirit of Prophecy quotes to support this.

"Are we hoping to see the whole church revived? That time will never come. There are persons in the church who are not converted, and who will not unite in earnest, prevailing prayer. We must enter upon the work individually. We must pray more, and talk less."—Selected Messages 1:122 (1887). {LDE 195.2}

"The forms of the dead will appear, through the cunning device of Satan, and many will link up with the one who loveth and maketh a lie. I warn our people that right among us some will turn away from the faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, and by them the truth will be evil spoken of." {LDE 171.1}

When these apparitions happen all over the world, like is starting to happen, that is what wakes the church from it's slumber and those who are ready, receive the Latter rain which leads to the Loud Cry.

"The saints must get a thorough understanding of present truth, which they will be obliged to maintain from the Scriptures. They must understand the state of the dead, for the spirits of devils will yet appear to them professing to be beloved friends and relatives, who will declare to them that the Sabbath has been changed,, also other unscriptural doctrines.—Early Writings, 87 (1854). {LDE 156.3}

The apostles, as personated by these lying spirits, are made to contradict what they wrote at the dictation of the Holy Spirit when on earth. They deny the divine origin of the Bible.—The Great Controversy, 557 (1911). {LDE 157.1}

Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome.—The Great Controversy, 588 (1911). {LDE 157.2}

The influence of Satan through the apparitions causes men to pass Sunday Law Legislation, then the Loud Cry comes.

"The great issue so near at hand [enforcement of Sunday laws] will weed out (harvest)those whom God has not appointed and He will have a pure, true, sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain."—Selected Messages 3:385 (1886). {LDE 179.2}

So look at that quote, it is very important. Who is going to give the Loud Cry in the Latter Rain during the enforcement of the Sunday law? Is it the whole SDA church? No, it is only those who were sincerely prepared to receive it. The rest are cut off!

Zechariah 13:8 In the whole land,” declares the Lord,
two-thirds will be struck down and perish;
yet one-third will be left in it.
9 This third I will put into the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold
.
They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’”

I am fully convicted that when the latter rain is falling (very soon) in strength, if you belong to the SDA church and your heart is not reflecting the light of Christ fully and part of the Loud Cry, then you are weighed in the ballance and found wanting. There is no second chance for those in the sactuary message church who were not ready for the Latter rain.

"We may be sure that when the Holy Spirit is poured out, those who did not receive and appreciate the early rain will not see or understand the value of the latter rain."—Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, 399 (1896). {LDE 195.3}

The perfect Biblical example is, all those who fell away in the time of Christ when He was crucified. Over 100,000 people saw the miracles of Christ and more were baptized through John and the Apostles before His death, but only 120 were in the upper room waiting for the promise, thus a lot of people who said "hosanna" when He triumphantly entered Jerusalem did not receive the early rain on Pentecost. Do you ever hear of anyone who was once convicted on the divinity of Christ during His ministry yet fell away coming back to the faith in scripture? Only those who had not yet heard came on the day of Pentecost. The rest went off to seal their fate. And this was after Jesus and many saints who were resurrected walked the streets of Jerusalem in front of them!!!!

When the end of probation comes, the really sad and difficult part is that those who are not on the true path of the church would be in total darkness and not even know they are actually being used as a marionette of Satan.

"The Lord is soon to come. There must be a refining, winnowing process in every church, for there are among us wicked men who do not love the truth or honor God." —The Review and Herald, March 19, 1895. {LDE 173.3}

"Divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest."—Selected Messages 2:114 (1896). {LDE 172.3

THEN the Sunday law comes and the wicked in our church all fall away.



Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #161902
02/16/14 05:14 AM
02/16/14 05:14 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: Jamesonofthunder
"When the end of probation comes, the really sad and difficult part is that those who are not on the true path of the church would be in total darkness and not even know they are actually being used as a marionette of Satan."


Even before probation closes while the Sunday laws are being enforced, a large number will compromise and be used as "marionette of Satan".

Prophecy points out the worst enemies of the faithful will these compromising ones.
To me it suggests that these 80% of the church membership may not just "leave" the church, but change the church into first day Adventists, and try to silence the 20% that cling to their loyalty to the Creator. The church will be split into the majority compromising for Sunday, and the minority clinging to God's commandments in loyalty to their Savior and Creator.

Quote:
"The work which the church has failed to do in a time of peace and prosperity she will have to do in a terrible crisis under most discouraging, forbidding circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the superficial, conservative class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith and take their stand with its avowed enemies, toward whom their sympathies have long been tending. These apostates will then manifest the most bitter enmity, doing all in their power to oppress and malign their former brethren and to excite indignation against them. This day is just before us. The members of the church will individually be tested and proved. They will be placed in circumstances where they will be forced to bear witness for the truth. Many will be called to speak before councils and in courts of justice, perhaps separately and alone. {5T 463.2}

Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment? [Re: dedication] #161928
02/17/14 12:10 AM
02/17/14 12:10 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Dear Dedication,

There may be attempts to make SDA churches into first day churches, but I think you are not grasping the intense struggle against our church that will be manifested in those days.

Those who do not have the true Spirit of Prophecy will be surrounded by a sparse people in their midst who will be proclaiming the true gospel message in the last days, and those who take offense to their message will get as far away from our congregations as possible when persecution comes. They will not come back at all. The buildings will be deserted except by those who have the true message, and as those doors close, the true church will be meeting in homes and eventually secluded mountain settings.

"I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this will cause a shaking among God’s people.—Testimonies For The Church 1:181 (1857).

This is already taking place. Next the spirits of devils will deceive many in our churches.

"Not having received the love of the truth, they will be taken in the delusions of the enemy; they will give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils and will depart from the faith."—Testimonies for the Church 6:401 (1900). {LDE 177.2}

What you described Dedication is happening right now.

There are many pastors who are denying the power of the testimonies which leads to truly keeping the Sabbath the way God wants us to, not filled with pomp and ceremony that leads to destruction. Rock bands in the church, women elders and pastors, accepting openly homosexual people into the fold. These are all things that lead to the delusions that destroy a huge portion of our congregations.

"One thing is certain: Those Seventh-day Adventists who take their stand under Satan’s banner will first give up their faith in the warnings and reproofs contained in the Testimonies of God’s Spirit".—Selected Messages 3:84 (1903)

"The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. “Where there is no vision, the people perish” (Proverbs 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God’s remnant people in the true testimony".—Selected Messages 1:48 (1890)

Is this not happening today? (The Andover SDA church here in the Minneapolis Metro area forbids mentioning the testimonies in their church)

An SDA church who denies the Testimonies are just as well as calling the Sabbath a lie. But those people will RUN when the Sunday law comes.

"The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out—the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place."—Selected Messages 2:380 (1886).

"As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel’s message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition."—The Great Controversy, 608 (1911)

"As trials thicken around us, both separation and unity will be seen in our ranks. Some who are now ready to take up weapons of warfare will in times of real peril make it manifest that they have not built upon the solid rock; they will yield to temptation. Those who have had great light and precious privileges but have not improved them will, under one pretext or another, go out from us.—Testimonies for the Church 6:400 (1900)


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #161929
02/17/14 12:18 AM
02/17/14 12:18 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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The whole world is to be stirred with enmity against Seventh-day Adventists because they will not yield homage to the papacy by honoring Sunday, the institution of this antichristian power.—Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, 37 (1893)


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #161931
02/17/14 01:43 AM
02/17/14 01:43 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
The whole world is to be stirred

That is VERY true James. Excellent thought.

///

Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #161936
02/17/14 05:11 AM
02/17/14 05:11 AM
dedication  Online Content
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While the division is happening now and sides are shaping up now, the following has not taken place:

Quote:
" The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the superficial, conservative class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith and take their stand with its avowed enemies, toward whom their sympathies have long been tending. These apostates will then manifest the most bitter enmity, doing all in their power to oppress and malign their former brethren and to excite indignation against them. This day is just before us. The members of the church will individually be tested and proved. They will be placed in circumstances where they will be forced to bear witness for the truth. Many will be called to speak before councils and in courts of justice, perhaps separately and alone. {5T 463.2}


We (as a church) are still in the "worldly conformity" in which truth is watered down, stage.
The "crises" is the Sunday laws.
That's when the " fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith" takes place.

A separation -- (if I understand EGW right) 95% (19 out of every 20)of church members will renounce their faith.

Quote:
"It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner."ChS 41


They
"will renounce the faith and take their stand with its avowed enemies"

Yes, they will denounce the seventh day, and the third angel's message, and may change the name as well. (Actually there are already some who want to reduce the name to simply "Adventist".

But I doubt they will abandon the institutions or the buildings.

The church will split.

And according to the above paragraph these former "brethren" (which will be the majority) will be the ones stirring up the ecumenical leaders against the true Seventh-day Adventists.
Yes, they will do all in their power to disassociate themselves from what they call the "lunatic fringe", and prove it by casting out and persecuting the true Seventh-day Adventists.

Far from "not grasping the intense struggle" it seems I see a far greater struggle than you do.

Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment? [Re: dedication] #161960
02/17/14 04:59 PM
02/17/14 04:59 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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"Many will stand in our pulpits with the torch of false prophecy in their hands, kindled from the hellish torch of Satan...." {LDE 179.3}

Sister Dedication,

I was recently a member of a church who's pastor was invited to be part of a community outreach involving all the churches in our area. This included having the pastors and priests of other denominations (including Catholic) come to our church on Sabbath and give sermons.

I prayed about this and the Holy Spirit warned me that this was forbidden and gave me quotes to give to the pastor. He completely denied the testimonies saying "God wants me to do this". Who was right? Was Mrs White not inspired to say we should remain seperate from them? Was the pastor correct in bringing those priests into our church to give their sermons?

Do you think things went on as usual after that? The split is already here. It may not have been shown to you yet, but it is here.

It will get much worse soon.

That man went out of his way to make sure I was not accepted in that church any longer, and then he left and became a computer engineer for the conference, giving up his pastoralship because he said he doesn't make enough money.

God has shown me that we are in it now. Those who are being swept up in the furver of the false revival cannot see where we are right now.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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