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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #196662
09/28/23 11:33 AM
09/28/23 11:33 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 496
Michigan, US
Satan coveted the throne of God.

Isa. 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God..."

Jesus said, "I have overcome the world" and the thrones are prepared for the redeemed.

Rev. 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

Stephen saw Jesus set on the right hand of God. Acts 7:55 "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God,
and Jesus standing on the right hand of God."

Revelation says that Jesus is in the mid of the throne, which implies that the Father God is on Jesus' right side and the Holy Spirit is on His left side.
Rev. 7:17 "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne ..."

In the throne room of Rev. 4 and 5, we see the throne of God which the Godheads present from the opening of the vision.

Rev. 4:2-3 "...behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald"

Jasper = Father God
Sardine = Jesus (in the mid of the throne Rev. 7:17)
Emerald = Holy Spirit

In the throne room, the judgment of God is in progress.

Rev. 4:5 "... there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." No one can hide sin in the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Rev. 4:6 "... and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind." No one can hide sin where the full of eyes scrutinizing.

Rev. 4:4 "And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold"
24 Elders present in the courts of heaven as a function of jury behalf of humanity.

Rev. 5:1 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."
Books are used in the judgment: the book of life (Rev. 20:12); the book of remembrance (Mal 3:16); the book of sin (Jer. 17:1)
The three books are used during the millennium judgment to review God's judgment that happened in the throne room (Rev. 4,5).

There is an idea that the throne room was the inauguration event of Jesus at His ascension. That notion is completely faulty according to the evidences of the Scripture.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #196830
10/18/23 12:02 PM
10/18/23 12:02 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 496
Michigan, US
In the throne room of heaven, God's judgment is in progress, as we read in Rev. 4-5. The judgment must happen prior to the sealing of God's people.

It is told that "I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" (Rev. 4:1).
In other words, God's judgment "must be hereafter" from the time of Jesus' ascension to heaven.

The assembly of the throneroom has many eyes to witness the judgment. The four living creatures are full of eyes(Rev. 4:6). The seven eyes are the seven Holy Spirits(Rev. 5:6), which signify in the presence of the perfect searching eyes of the Holy Spirit, no one can hide their sin. The eyes of:
1)the Holy Spirit(Godhead)
2)the four living creatures
3)the 24 Elders(representatives of humanity from the earth)
4)the myriad of angels
5)every creature that is in heaven

The seven-sealed book has a written record. This written record will be revisited by the redeemed saints during the millennium judgment.

Rev. 20:11-13 "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

Notice the "books" and another book, which is the Book of Life. It's involved three books.
1) the Book of Life(Ex. 32:32)
2) the Book of sin (Jer. 17:1)
3) the Book of remembrance (Mal. 3:16)

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #196914
10/31/23 12:40 PM
10/31/23 12:40 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 496
Michigan, US
The Judgment of God

We have a confidence in the judgment of God because:

1) Jesus is the Judge who shed His blood to redeem us - John 5:22 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son."
2) Jesus is the best Attorney - 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
3) Jesus is the faithful Witness - Rev. 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood."

Who are the participants of the God's judgment?

1) The firstborns of the sons of God in the cosmic world are the assembly that participates in the judgment.

"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.".Heb. 12:23-24

Job 1:6 and 2:1 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them." and "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord." Job 1:6 and 2:1.

2) The 2/3 of holy angels stand and watch the judgment of God, as well as ministering to the heir of salvation.

Dan. 7:9-10 "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened."

3) The 24 Elders from among the faithful priesthood during the patriarchal time, who have ascended with the Lord Jesus Christ, participate in the judgment of God.

Rev. 4:4 and 11:16-18 "And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."
"And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

4) The four living creatures who are full of eyes within participate in the judgment of God.

Rev. 4:8 "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."

5) The Godheads: God the Father, Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit determine the ultimate judgment of God.

Rev. 4:2-3 and 19:4-5
"And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald."
"And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great."

The four phases of the judgment of God:
1) Investigative Judgment of the saints-judgment begins in the house of God first ( Rev. Ch. 1 to 7).
2) Verdict Judgment-applicable to the wicked (Rev. Ch. 8 to 14).
3) Excutional Judgment-applicable to the most wicked (Rev. Ch. 15-19)
4) Reviewing the judgment by the most righteous saints-the saints review the Judgment of God during the millennium as a judge. (Rev. Ch. 20 to 22).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #196959
11/09/23 07:14 PM
11/09/23 07:14 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 496
Michigan, US
Imagine that we, the redeemed saints, will review the judgment of God during the millennium.
We shall look at the books of record: 1) the Book of Remembrance;
2) the Book of sin;
3) the Book of Life.
We shall be fully satisfied with the righteous judgment of God that happened during the investigative judgment of time, which is alluded to in Rev. Ch. 4-5.

The seven-sealed Book in Rev Ch. 5 is the sum of these three books open to the redeemed saints. We are the only ones who didn't get to confess that God's judgment is "true and righteous" yet.

Notice that the angels who agree:
Rev. 16:5-7 " And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments."

Before the great white throne, we shall review the judgment of God.

Rev. 20:11 "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the Book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #197061
11/27/23 12:54 PM
11/27/23 12:54 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 496
Michigan, US
The first phase of the judgment of God is an investigative judgment which pertains to the first seven chapters of Revelation.

1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

1) Rev. 1-3 pertains to the Seven Churches.

2) Rev. 4-5 pertains to the throne room judgment.

3) Rev. 6-7 pertains to the sealing of those who pass the investigative judgment(IJ).

The investigative judgment is essential for God's people. We find the books are involved in Rev. 20:11. "...the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the Book of life..."

The Scripture record includes; 1)book of remembrance (Mal. 3:16); 2) book of sin (Jer. 17:1); 3) book of life (Phil. 4:3; Rev. 13:8; 17:8).

In bird's eye view, the seven churches are investigated in the throne room of heaven, then heaven will seal saints, which the book of Rev. Chap. one to seven clearly indicate.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #197120
12/08/23 01:28 PM
12/08/23 01:28 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 496
Michigan, US
The Seven Plagues are the execution judgment from God for the most wicked that remain in the final generation of humanity.
Here is a question. Who is the beast that claims, "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow" (Rev. 18:7)?
According to the fifth plague, The beast shall receive God's wrath.

Rev. 16:10-11 "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds."

Is the kingdom of the beast full of spiritual darkness today? The beast is none other than the fallen star from heaven and an angel of the bottomless pit.

In other words, an angel(an evil messenger in this context) from the bottomless pit ascends and intends to destroy and cause destruction. So, namely, he is called "Abaddon" and "Apollyon."

Rev. 9:12 "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

Rev. 9:1-2 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

In conclusion, the beast is the fallen star from heaven, and he is the angel of the bottomless pit who prevents people from receiving the seal of God.
Rev. 9:4 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."
The beast is out to hurt those who have not received the seal of God through and by spiritual torments.
The kingdom of the beast is full of darkness and worked against the sealing of God in the past 1500 years.
So, God raised the Advent Movement to proclaim the Sabbath truth for over five months, prophetically 150 years. Consider the ratio of 1500 to 150 years.
The period of five months is mentioned twice(v. 5 and v. 10) in the fifth trumpet in parentheses. We should take advantage of this apparent structure to see its importance.

1 Cor. 14:8 "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #197241
01/02/24 04:24 PM
01/02/24 04:24 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 496
Michigan, US
Who are the four angels holding the winds of the four corners of the earth?

Rev. 7:1 "And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

Why are they holding the wind?

Rev. 7:3 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

Until when do they have to hold the wind?

Rev. 7:3 "..till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

When would the winds be loosed?
Conclusively, it is when the sealing on the servants of God finishes.

The vision of Revelation tells us that the Apocalypse sealing upon 144,000 will be the final. In other words, God will command the four angels to loose the winds of the four corners of the earth.
When would this end be, then? Just before the event of the second coming of Jesus?

Upon these simple questions, knowing what the wind represents symbolically would be necessary.

Many assume that the wind represents strife and wars in the world.
Wait a minute! Did God say our world is going to perish by the destruction of strife and wars? Or will He punish the wicked world with the wrath of God?

Rev. 16:1 "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth."

Rev. 6:17 "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Are the wars and strife occurring in the world indication that the four angels are loose already? And 144,000 are sealed at some point? This conclusion would need to be re-examined, as many would agree with me.

In short, the four angels had not let go of their holding yet; neither had God commanded them to pour out the vials of the wrath of God(the seven last plagues) in full on the earth.

God's judgment in the world is going to manifest in the seven last plagues and plunge into destruction. That's when the four angels lose their hold of the earth's four winds on God's command.

The four angels are the four living-creatures who will give the vials of the wrath of God to the seven angels to pour out upon the world.

Rev. 15:7 "And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #197392
02/08/24 10:45 AM
02/08/24 10:45 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 496
Michigan, US
144,000 appears only three times in the bible. The number is a literal number, not symbolic.

God does not need many to finish the world. The number of 144,000 is the called, chosen, and faithful people who will be the last Elijah in the spirit and to offend the beast power when the beast emerges to enforce the mark of the beast.

The first Elijah fought the king Ahab (1king ch. 16-19).
The second Elijah, John the baptist, fought the king Herod (Matt. 11, 14, Luke 1).
The last Elijah in spirit is 144,000 (Mal 4:5-6) who fight the Pope.

The common thing of Elijah: 1) the first Elijah rebuked the king Ahab (1 King 18:17-18).
2) John the Baptist rebuked the king Herod.
3) 144,000 shall rebuke the Pope, who call herself "I sit a queen, and am no widow" (Rev. 18:7).

When the Pope says "I sit a queen" he refers himself above the church. In other words, queen is woman, and woman represents as church in the prophetic context. What could that mean that she calls herself the Pope above the church, as an emperor of the church? Only Jesus is the head of the church (Eph. 1:22).

In the spirit of Elijah, 144,000 will fight against the Sunday law which of the Mark of the Beast, just as the first Elijah fought with Baal(sun) worship and as John the Baptist against Sadducee and Pharisee, and the sun worship in the nation of Rome.

Heb. 11:40 "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

In the Early Writing by EG White, 144,000 mentioned 8 times and each time it is referred as a literal number. God is not God of confusion. He made it very clear in the Revelation, as "I heard the number of them" (Rev. 7:4).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #197393
02/08/24 08:32 PM
02/08/24 08:32 PM
Daryl  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,126
Nova Scotia, Canada
I am also inclined to think of the 144,000 as a literal number.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Daryl] #197397
02/09/24 01:46 AM
02/09/24 01:46 AM
teresaq  Offline
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Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted by Daryl
I am also inclined to think of the 144,000 as a literal number.


I think so too. The more I study bible prophecy combined with various events of the last few years I think the population will be reduced on the one hand. On the other hand the 144,000 will be the ones who had a firm connection with God to the end. They will be what is left of all the self-proclaim Christians.

Scary to realize that. As long as I stay on my knees seeking the Lord knowing how easy it is to fall! Plenty of bible verses to remind us of that.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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