|
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,600
Members1,323
| |
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
6 registered members (dedication, Karen Y, ProdigalOne, Kevin H, Daryl, 1 invisible),
2,954
guests, and 18
spiders. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#164621
04/30/14 02:04 AM
04/30/14 02:04 AM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
|
|
In what sense, then, did Jesus deny self? A. He could have had a nice meal after His baptism, which is what we offer most new members, but He denied Himself. In fact, He denied Himself that perk for 6 weeks. And when someone suggested that He turn stone into bread, which would have been very easy for Him, He denied Himself again. Those are natural desires that are not unholy, not "fleshly" in the theological sense. B. He could have easily proven His Messianic position by throwing Himself off the temple. Imagine how the people would have flocked to Him! Now that would have been an entrance, and bypassing the cross to boot. But He denied Himself the privilege of choosing His own way. Is it unholy to advertise the truth? Not at all. But He denied Himself because it wasn't the plan. C. He was offered the world in exchange for a bent knee. How ridiculous is that? He created everything! Everything is His! And this thief has the gall to give it back to Him, as if He couldn't take it back by force anytime He chose to. He could have just as easily said, "Disappear forever," as, "Get behind Me." But He denied Himself. That was not the Father's will. The plan was to walk the strait and narrow road to an ignominious death. How could Jesus deny self? In more ways than we can imagine. You can only deny yourself if you have options, and He had more options than any of us. He could have stayed in heaven. He could have come as a king or warrior. He could have come as a glorious being. He could have decided to leave. He could have ..... But He denied Himself. But perhaps more than all that, He denied Himself that which came most naturally to Him - to be the Divine King. We are called to deny our lusts which war against the soul. We want things that are bad for us. If we knew the consequences of sin, and could see the end from the beginning, we would know that following our natural desires will always lead to pain and suffering. That's just the kind of natural desires we have. But Jesus had different desires. His desires were holy. He wanted good things. Furthermore, He was the Divine King who knows everything. In His wisdom and goodness, He would have made good decisions had He followed His own counsels. But He denied Himself. We are called to subject ourselves to God who is infinitely superior to us. Jesus, the omnipotent God, was called to subject Himself to His equal. That is self-denial that we can't even begin to fathom.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#164625
04/30/14 04:40 PM
04/30/14 04:40 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
If we are indeed to overcome as Christ overcame, that we may mingle with the blood-washed, glorified company before the throne of God, it is of the highest importance that we become acquainted with the life of our Redeemer and deny self as did Christ. We must meet temptations and overcome obstacles, and through toil and suffering, in the name of Jesus, overcome as He overcame. (CON 66) Arnold, thank you for sharing examples of Jesus denying self. Excellent. Did He ever deny self like we do - sinful, selfish, fleshly clamorings? Here's how Ellen White describes it: The clamors of self, its pretensions, its lusts, must be rebuked, and we must put on the robe of humility, and take our place as humble learners in the school of Christ. {OHC 37.5}
Every Christian will be assailed by the allurements of the world, the clamors of the carnal nature, and the direct temptations of Satan. {Pr 179.2}
When selfishness clamors for the victory in the hearts of men, and they are tempted to withhold their due proportion in any good work, they should strengthen their principles of right by the thought that He who was rich in heaven's priceless treasure turned away from it all and became poor. {3T 402.2}
God is molding the heart into something more like Himself. And yet self clamors constantly for the victory. {3T 537.1}
The Lord would have parents obey the dictates of reason, rather than the clamors of impulse and blind passion. They should learn to control themselves, and then they are prepared to control their sons and daughters. {ST, February 9, 1882 par. 4}
He who has determined to enter the spiritual kingdom will find that all the powers and passions of unregenerate nature, backed by the forces of the kingdom of darkness, are arrayed against him. Each day he must renew his consecration, each day do battle with evil. Old habits, hereditary tendencies to wrong, will strive for the mastery, and against these he is to be ever on guard, striving in Christ's strength for victory. {AA 476.3}
There is earnest warfare before all who would subdue the evil tendencies that strive for the mastery. {CCh 348.5}
Self will strive for the mastery and will be opposed to the work of bringing the life and thoughts, the will and affections, into subjection to the will of Christ. {2T 687.3}
Every day hereditary tendencies to wrong will strive for the mastery. {VSS 304.4}
Day by day we must subdue the evil traits that strive for the mastery. {ST, January 8, 1885 par. 13}
In our own strength it is impossible for us to deny the clamors of our fallen nature. Through this channel Satan will bring temptation upon us. Christ knew that the enemy would come to every human being, to take advantage of hereditary weakness, and by his false insinuations to ensnare all whose trust is not in God. And by passing over the ground which man must travel, our Lord has prepared the way for us to overcome. It is not His will that we should be placed at a disadvantage in the conflict with Satan. He would not have us intimidated and discouraged by the assaults of the serpent. "Be of good cheer," He says; "I have overcome the world." John 16:33. {DA 122.3}
Would that we could oftener hear the simple, earnest testimony of heart conflicts and victories:-- "I have been fighting the battles of the Lord, and have made conquests over self. I was sorely assaulted by the great adversary, tempted to neglect prayer, and to seek my own pleasure. I did not faithfully discharge my duty to God. He has bestowed upon me Heaven's richest blessing, in the gift of his Son; yet I made his service secondary to my own. But I have seen my sin in so doing, and have repented before the Lord. I have battled against self, which was striving for the mastery. The conflict was grievous, but I would not yield to the clamors of the carnal heart. I humbled my soul before God, and wept in penitence before him. My trembling faith grasped the promises, and appropriated them to myself. Jesus revealed himself as a present help in my emergency. I have gained the victory." What a blessed, softening, subduing influence such testimonies would have upon the hard heart of the unconverted or the backslider. God is speaking through clay. Religion seems a reality. {RH, December 20, 1881 par. 13} Did Jesus ever deny selfish clamorings like born-again believers do?
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#164626
04/30/14 04:45 PM
04/30/14 04:45 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Jesus resisted the same sinful, selfish, tempting "strivings" we must resist.
We are to grow up to the full stature of men and women in Christ Jesus, and we are thus growing up a precious temple unto the Lord. He says, "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (2 Corinthians 6:16). . . . What we want is the Spirit of God in our souls. We want our faces set constantly heavenward. And when we see that sin in us is striving for the mastery, then we must strive. . . . {HP 263.5}
The pitying Saviour stands right by your side to help you. He would send every angel out of glory while you are struggling to overcome sin, so that Satan cannot have the victory over you. Christ . . . took man's human nature upon Him that He might come right down to man in the temptation wherewith man is beset. The pitiful Redeemer knows just how to help us in every one of our strivings. {HP 263.6}
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#164628
04/30/14 05:01 PM
04/30/14 05:01 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
|
|
"sin in us is striving for the mastery"
Is Jesus included in that "us"? Was there sin *in Jesus* that was striving for the mastery?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#164629
04/30/14 05:05 PM
04/30/14 05:05 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
|
|
"selfishness clamors for the victory in the hearts of men"
Was there any selfishness in the heart of Jesus clamoring for the victory?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#164630
04/30/14 05:11 PM
04/30/14 05:11 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
|
|
"Old habits, hereditary tendencies to wrong, will strive for the mastery"
Did Jesus strive against His old habits? Think carefully on this one. What were Christ's old habits?
Did Jesus have hereditary tendencies to wrong? Be exceedingly careful.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#164631
04/30/14 05:17 PM
04/30/14 05:17 PM
|
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
|
|
Mt Man do you know what an evil propensity is?
Propensity;
an inclination or natural tendency to behave in a particular way. synonyms: tendency, inclination, predisposition, proneness, proclivity, readiness, liability, disposition, leaning
We inherit evil propensities from our fathers and from living in a world full of evilly propense people because we are born fallen. We do not have the covering of the righteousness of Christ when we are born in this world as descendants of Adam.
Let me ask this from you.
Did Jesus come here with or without the righteousness of Christ covering Him?
Sounds pretty silly to say He did not have the righteous covering that Adam lost doesn't it. Christ without Christ? But that IS what you are saying He came here like. You are saying that Jesus came like a FALLEN man. But He didn't. He came as the second Adam, WITH the righteous covering that Adam had lost.
As Adams descendants we are born in the Spiritual nakedness that we inherit, Jesus was not born that way.
Did Adam have evil propensities when he was created? No he didn't, he was perfect until he fell. That is why there is absolutely no excuse for sin to have come into the world.
"Be careful, exceedingly careful as to how you dwell upon the human nature of Christ. Do not set Him before the people as a man with the propensities of sin. He is the second Adam. The first Adam was created a pure, sinless being, without a taint of sin upon him; he was in the image of God. He could fall, and he did fall through transgressing. Because of sin his posterity was born with inherent propensities of disobedience. But Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God. He took upon Himself human nature, and was tempted in all points as human nature is tempted. He could have sinned; He could have fallen, but not for one moment was there in Him an evil propensity. He was assailed with temptations in the wilderness, as Adam was assailed with temptations in Eden."{5BC 1128.4}
Jesus could have fallen but He didn't and he was not born fallen like we are. You need to pray about this.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#164632
04/30/14 05:21 PM
04/30/14 05:21 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
|
|
"He has bestowed upon me Heaven's richest blessing, in the gift of his Son; yet I made his service secondary to my own. But I have seen my sin in so doing, and have repented before the Lord."
Could Jesus have said this truthfully?
"I have battled against self, which was striving for the mastery. The conflict was grievous, but I would not yield to the clamors of the carnal heart."
We battle against the carnal heart and the conflict is grievous. Did Jesus have a carnal heart? Did He go through a grievous conflict to recoil from sin, or was it natural for Him?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#164633
04/30/14 05:34 PM
04/30/14 05:34 PM
|
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
|
|
The levels of temptation Jesus went through were on a completely different order than "us."
He was tempted from outside not from inside.
But then He also entered into our hearts. He could tell when Satan was entering the mind of Peter because He experienced his heart in real time, from inside his heart. He could tell what the Pharisees were thinking because the Holy Spirit revealed it to Him.
When Jesus took on the sins of the world He saw every temptation that we not only struggled with but every sin we fell to. This is how He can empathize with us today. He is in our hearts if we accept Him, and even if we don't He is always trying to keep people from sin through the Holy Spirit. Even if we are the most vile person He knows our temptations and thoughts, until the end of probation when the ultimate sin hardens the hearts of men and they have cut themselves off from the Spirit. Like Pilate washing his hands after condemning Jesus, he was "cut off".
Jesus was "cut off" in the midst of the week also, so He even knows the hearts of men and demons there. He suffered that death for us so the debt could be paid.
The thoughts you are advocating Mt Man cuts you off from advancing in this truth.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#164634
05/01/14 02:48 AM
05/01/14 02:48 AM
|
SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
The levels of temptation Jesus went through were on a completely different order than "us." For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|
