James Peterson, do you love the deeds of the Nicolaitans? Sure sounds like it. Are you saying the gospel of Christ has made the law of God of none effect; that by "believing" we are released from the necessity of being doers of the word. But this is the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which Christ so unsparingly condemned.

Romans 5:18-21 AKJV
18 Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came on all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came on all men to justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin has reigned to death, even so might grace reign through righteousness to eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Grace is loving forgiveness. That is what Christ provided. PERIOD.

Christ did not "obey the law for anybody". And that is true because you ask for forgiveness which means that YOU are the one who is living either righteously or unrighteously. And when you sin, YOU SIN, and therefore YOU must ask for forgiveness because YOU are the one who lived and fell.

Nevertheless, because there was none righteous when God looked upon humanity, and because He found only Christ as perfect ... FOR CHRIST'S SAKE AND BECAUSE OF CHRIST ALONE AND BECAUSE CHRIST PLEADED ON OUR BEHALF, we are all saved all whosoever believes in HIM.

The gospel of the Kingdom of God is very simple.

///

Did you ignore the It is written?

Do you know what Forgiveness is? There are two Green word translated into English as forgive. Do you know what they are and what the difference between them is?

God does not hold anything against any one. God is forgiveness (Charizomai) personified. Sinners that parish, will parish forgiven by God. What we need is forgiveness (Aphiemi) as in 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Arnold, be careful here. If Jesus has power to save to the uttermost, and if His grace is sufficient for all, your theology, given the sentiments expressed in your comment above, would lead you necessarily to the point of saying everyone will have to be saved. It's either that, or you make God show partiality.

If God has no "partiality," then what is the difference between "saved" and "lost?"

I say, the difference is us. We make the difference, not God. How do we make the difference? There is a work of faith which we must do. There is an "obedience" which God does not do for us and which we must do for ourselves, or lose Heaven. Mrs. White says "Those who merely seek to enter in will never be able." What's that? What happened to "seek and ye shall find?"

She says, along with that statement, "The agonizing ones are the only ones who will urge their passage through the strait gate and narrow way that lead to life eternal, to fullness of joy and pleasures forevermore."

Agonizing is one of the works of God which God will not do on our behalf. We must do it. More to the topic of imputed righteousness, look carefully at the following statement.



Notice that in order to have Christ's righteousness imputed, three things are mentioned as being required of the sinner:

1) repentance of his sins,
2) faith in Christ, and
3) obedience to the perfect law of God.

It's a bit like saying "it takes money to make money." In order to have Christ's righteousness imputed to us, we must first obey His law.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

GC, I agree that the difference is in us. However, the difference is NOT that the obedience of the saved is worthy of eternal life. We are righteous because of ONE MAN'S obedience, not our own.

On the other hand, none will be saved in disobedience. Our imperfect obedience is required, but not sufficient.

Here's one of the most balanced and complete treatments I know:

There is no excuse for sin or for indolence. Jesus has led the way, and He wishes us to follow in His steps. He has suffered, He has sacrificed as none of us can, that He might bring salvation within our reach. We need not be discouraged. Jesus came to our world to bring divine power to man, that through His grace, we might be transformed into His likeness. – {FW 49.4}

When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus accepts this disposition and effort as man’s best service, and He makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit. But He will not accept those who claim to have faith in Him and yet are disloyal to His Father’s commandment. We hear a great deal about faith, but we need to hear a great deal more about works. Many are deceiving their own souls by living an easy-going, accommodating, crossless religion. – {FW 50.1}

But Jesus says, “If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me” (Matthew 16:24). – {FW 50.2}

Galatians 3:16 (KJV) 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:19 (KJV) 19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:26 (KJV) 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:29 (KJV) 29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

It seems like the covenant promises are made to the Seed - Jesus. We don't get the promises by meeting the covenant conditions, since those promises were made to Jesus, not us.

However, if we are His children, we are heirs to the promises of the covenant. Therefore, our task is to be His children.

WDYT?

A huge shout - AMEN!


You wrote - "Our imperfect obedience is required, but not sufficient." You applied the expression - "imperfect obedience" to the results of abiding in Jesus. Here is how Ellen White used the phrase:


On the other hand, referring to the fruit of abiding of Jesus, Ellen White wrote - "Holiness finds that it has nothing more to require." True, it lacks merit; therefore, Jesus adds it. ". . . He makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit."

we can not obey unless we have Christ's righteousness.


Christ our Substitute
Being born of a woman, Christ was necessarily born under the law, for such is the condition of all mankind, and "in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:17. He takes everything on Himself. "He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows." "Himself took our infirmities, and bare our disease." Matthew 8:17, R.V. "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all." He redeems us by coming into our place literally, and taking our load off our shoulders. "Him who knew no sin He made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21, R.V. In the fullest sense of the word, and to a degree that is seldom thought of when the expression is used, He became man's substitute. That is, He permeates our being, identifying Himself so fully with us that everything that touches or affects us touches and affects Him. He is not our substitute in the sense that one man is a substitute for another, in the army, for instance, the substitute being in one place, while the one for whom he is substitute is somewhere else, engaged in some other service. No; Christ's substitution is far different. He is our substitute in that He substitutes Himself for us, and we appear no more. We drop out entirely, so that it is "not I, but Christ." Thus we cast our cares on Him, not by picking them up and with an effort throwing them on Him, but by humbling ourselves into the nothingness that we are, so that we leave the burden resting on Him alone. Thus we see already how it is that He came {1900 EJW, GTI 168.2}

I agree with this. And in order to be His children, we must obey. That is what Ellen White is saying in the quote I posted earlier. That is also what John tells us.



Mrs. White also tells us obedience is required to become children of God.



And Mrs. White says the following regarding the requirement of obedience in order to be saved.



She also says this about the relationship of belief and works in our salvation.



The way I see it, this is akin to the parable of the talents. The one who hid his in the ground had no works of his own by which to merit his lord's favor. The others, who had made good use of their talents and multiplied them for their master, were rewarded. The reward was purely a gift. Their multiplied talents, however, represented efforts on their own part--efforts not "given" them. These efforts were the result of their own decisions, and resulted in acts of faith (works). Those works placed them in favor with their master, who then gave them their reward.

No one is worthy of the reward. The reward is a gift. But without works, we are ineligible for the gift. With works, whether we worked all day, or only the late afternoon, the master will reward us according to His good pleasure.

Notice that our Master does not look merely upon the works which we do. He looks upon the heart. If we do the works for the right motivation/reason, He can accept our works. If not, even though we do the works expected of us, He cannot accept them.



Here's an especially pertinent statement regarding the role of faith and works.



Blessings,

Green Cochoa.