HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,629
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 24
kland 13
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
dedication
dedication
Canada
Posts: 6,440
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
6 registered members (Karen Y, Daryl, dedication, Nadi, 2 invisible), 2,967 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
New Reply
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 21 of 29 1 2 19 20 21 22 23 28 29
Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: APL] #165687
06/05/14 05:32 PM
06/05/14 05:32 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: green
In order to have Christ's righteousness imputed to us, we must first obey His law.
we can not obey unless we have Christ's righteousness.


You have things out of their proper order. If what you said were true, it would mean that at least one of the following must also be true:

1) all sinners have Christ's righteousness; or
2) we are unable to obey through the God-given freedom of choice and exercise of our will unless/until we have Christ's righteousness.

While I would not say our obedience is perfect without Christ's righteousness, and certainly our obedience will never save us, we most certainly can choose to obey before we see Christ's righteousness applied in our behalf. Our obedience shows our faith. God rewards faith. There is no faith without obedience. "Without faith it is impossible to please [God]." If faith only exists in the presence of obedience, the above could be restated as "without obedience it is impossible to please God." We do not have Christ's merits on our behalf before we have accepted them by faith, and faith itself must be demonstrated in obedience. Therefore, Christ's righteousness is obtained by our own obedience. His perfect obedience covers our feeble and imperfect obedience. It does not, however, cover wickedness and known sin...not all will be saved by Christ's obedience.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Reply Quote
Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #165688
06/05/14 05:58 PM
06/05/14 05:58 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The Saviour took upon Himself the infirmities of humanity and lived a sinless life, that men might have no fear that because of the weakness of human nature they could not overcome. Christ came to make us "partakers of the divine nature," and His life declares that humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin. {MH 180.5}

Imperfect obedience? Not according to the Bible or the SOP!

Reply Quote
Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Green Cochoa] #165689
06/05/14 06:03 PM
06/05/14 06:03 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Therefore, Christ's righteousness is obtained by our own obedience.

But while God can be just, and yet justify the sinner through the merits of Christ, no man can cover his soul with the garments of Christ's righteousness while practicing known sins or neglecting known duties. God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul. {FW 100.1}

The righteousness of Jesus covers pardoned sins - not the fruit of abiding in Him. The only thing Jesus adds to the fruit of abiding in Him is - merit. He doesn't make sin meritorious. Instead, He makes the fruit of abiding in Him meritorious.

Reply Quote
Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #165690
06/05/14 06:14 PM
06/05/14 06:14 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
God has given to the world and to angels the evidence of the changeless character of His love. He would part with His only begotten Son, send Him into the world, clothed in the likeness of sinful flesh, to condemn sin and to die upon Calvary's cross to make it manifest to men that there is provision in the counsels of heaven for those who believe in Christ, to keep the commandments of God. Aside from Christ, man cannot in spirit and in truth keep one of the commandments of God, but in Christ Jesus the claims of the law are met, because He transforms the nature of man by His grace, creates in the heart a new spiritual life, implants a holy nature, and men become Christlike in character. {14MR 86.1}

Reply Quote
Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #165695
06/05/14 10:05 PM
06/05/14 10:05 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: green

In order to have Christ's righteousness imputed to us, we must first obey His law.
we can not obey unless we have Christ's righteousness.

Originally Posted By: apl
we can not obey unless we have Christ's righteousness.


Originally Posted By: green
You have things out of their proper order. If what you said were true, it would mean that at least one of the following must also be true:

1) all sinners have Christ's righteousness; or
2) we are unable to obey through the God-given freedom of choice and exercise of our will unless/until we have Christ's righteousness.


So green, you suggest we can obey by exercise of our free choice. What then do we need Christ? It is only Christ that has made it possible for us to obey.
Originally Posted By: EGW
This robe [spotless character], woven in the loom of heaven, has in it not one thread of human devising. Christ in His humanity wrought out a perfect character, and this character He offers to impart to us. "All our righteousness are as filthy rags." Isaiah 64:6. Everything that we of ourselves can do is defiled by sin. But the Son of God "was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin." Sin is defined to be "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:5, 4. But Christ was obedient to every requirement of the law. He said of Himself, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God; yea, Thy law is within My heart." Psalm 40:8. When on earth, He said to His disciples, "I have kept My Father's commandments." John 15:10. By His perfect obedience He has made it possible for every human being to obey God's commandments. [yet is green really saying we can keep the law by ourselves??? He has said we need to obey before we can get Christ's righteousness. Perhaps green is confused by the terms obey and submit, who knows?] When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness. Then as the Lord looks upon us He sees, not the fig-leaf garment, not the nakedness and deformity of sin, but His own robe of righteousness, which is perfect obedience to the law of Jehovah. {COL 311.4}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Reply Quote
Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Mountain Man] #165697
06/05/14 10:33 PM
06/05/14 10:33 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
You wrote - "Our imperfect obedience is required, but not sufficient." You applied the expression - "imperfect obedience" to the results of abiding in Jesus. Here is how Ellen White used the phrase:

Quote:
Without Christ it is impossible for him to render perfect obedience to the law of God; and heaven can never be gained by an imperfect obedience; for this would place all heaven in jeopardy, and make possible a second rebellion. {ST, December 30, 1889 par. 4}

That's why we don't gain heaven by OUR obedience.

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Heaven is gained by our acceptance of someone else's obedience, character, life. We are heirs of the promise, not earners.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Reply Quote
Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #165698
06/05/14 10:39 PM
06/05/14 10:39 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
But asygo, green said, "In order to have Christ's righteousness imputed to us, we must first obey His law.". He can't be wrong, can he???


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Reply Quote
Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: asygo] #165699
06/06/14 01:36 AM
06/06/14 01:36 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Without Christ it is impossible for him to render perfect obedience to the law of God; and heaven can never be gained by an imperfect obedience; for this would place all heaven in jeopardy, and make possible a second rebellion. {ST, December 30, 1889 par. 4}

That's why we don't gain heaven by OUR obedience.

Are you suggesting - "imperfect obedience" - is referring to the fruit of abiding in Jesus? Doesn't - "without Christ it is impossible for him to render perfect obedience" - imply with Christ it is possible to render perfect obedience? There is much written about "perfect obedience" -

Quote:
True sanctification means perfect love, perfect obedience, perfect conformity to the will of God. We are to be sanctified to God through obedience to the truth. {AA 565.1}

Only for those who return to their allegiance to God, only for those who obey the law that they have violated, will the blood of Christ avail. Christ will never become a party to sin. (MR 900.37).

Whenever one renounces sin, which is the transgression of the law, his life will be brought into conformity to the law, into perfect obedience. This is the work of the Holy Spirit. {Ev 308.4}

The moment the sinner believes in Christ, he stands in the sight of God uncondemned; for the righteousness of Christ is his: Christ's perfect obedience is imputed to him. But he must co-operate with divine power, and put forth his human effort to subdue sin, and stand complete in Christ. {FE 429.3}

In perfect obedience to His holy will, we are to manifest adoration, love, cheerfulness, and praise, and thus honor and glorify God. {AG 58.5}

Under the new covenant, perfect obedience is the condition of life. {AG 138.4}

But by perfect obedience to the requirements of the law, man is justified. {HP 146.4}

We would invite all to come, all to abide in Christ, to advance daily in the perfection of character by abiding in Christ. As they do this, they find that rest that can come only through perfect obedience. {HP 277.4}

This is true sanctification, for sanctification consists in the cheerful performance of daily duties in perfect obedience to the will of God. {ML 250.5}

Do you believe these statements imply "imperfect obedience"?

Reply Quote
Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: APL] #165700
06/06/14 01:55 AM
06/06/14 01:55 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
Did you ignore the It is written?

Do you know what Forgiveness is? There are two Green word translated into English as forgive. Do you know what they are and what the difference between them is?

God does not hold anything against any one. God is forgiveness (Charizomai) personified. Sinners that parish, will parish forgiven by God. What we need is forgiveness (Aphiemi) as in 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Do YOU need to know the difference between "Charizomai" and "Aphiemi" in order to forgive someone? Do YOU think God consults his Greek lexicon before deciding whether to "Charizomai" you or to "Aphiemi" you?

Quote:
The whole Talmud consists of 63 tractates, and in standard print is over 6,200 pages long. It is written in Tannaitic Hebrew and Aramaic. The Talmud contains the teachings and opinions of thousands of rabbis on a variety of subjects, including Halakha (law), Jewish ethics, philosophy, customs, history, lore and many other topics. The Talmud is the basis for all codes of Jewish law and is much quoted in rabbinic literature.

Such is how SDA have become!

Nevertheless, at the first Jerusalem council of the Christian Church it was observed and agreed, "God, who knows the heart, acknowledged [the Gentiles] by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to [the Jews], and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." (Acts 15:8-11)

I long to break the bonds of the captives, set the prisoners free, open the eyes of the blind and the ears of the deaf, to make whole again the lame and the bedridden that they all may rejoice in the presence of MY God and MY Saviour, Jesus Christ! Is it not written, "The Kingdom of God is at hand! Repent and believe the gospel"?

Of what value is a gospel (GOOD NEWS) that is bogged down wearily with indecisions, uncertainties, arguments, philosophies and nebulous nuances of the advantages and disadvantages, fullness and/or limitations inherent in decisions about the use/s of "Charizomai" and "Aphiemi" in the Biblical text, principally the Greek original? Then you turn to him who thirst and say, "Son, do you know the differences? Please elucidate!"

SHUTDOWN THE COMPUTER, GO OUTSIDE AND SPEAK A WORD OF KINDNESS TO SOMEONE WALKING BY!

///

Reply Quote
Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #165702
06/06/14 03:52 AM
06/06/14 03:52 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: james peterson
Do YOU need to know the difference between "Charizomai" and "Aphiemi" in order to forgive someone? Do YOU think God consults his Greek lexicon before deciding whether to "Charizomai" you or to "Aphiemi" you?
Meanings can get lost in translation. God does not hold anything against anyone. I don't have to beg God to "forgive" Me. While we were sinners, Christ died for us! Being forgiven in the usual meaning of the English word is NOT the problem. Change your mind (repent) and believe the Good News (gospel). What we need is the law written on the heart, this is the forgiveness spoken about in 1 John 1:9


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Reply Quote
Page 21 of 29 1 2 19 20 21 22 23 28 29
Quick Reply

Options
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
CAPTCHA Verification



Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 05/06/24 12:18 PM
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 05/05/24 05:39 AM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 05/03/24 02:55 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by dedication. 05/06/24 02:37 PM
Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:33 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:29 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:27 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by kland. 05/06/24 10:32 AM
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 10:09 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 05/02/24 08:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1