Amen! However, I suspect you and I have different definitions of what it means to "overcome" sinful habits. I believe "overcome" means to subdue sinful habits, subject them to a sanctified will and mind. To "overcome" as Jesus "overcame" means to recognize and resist sin, self, and Satan. It does not mean to gradually discover and crucify sinful habits over the course of a lifetime.

What does the Bible call it when a person learns how to live in harmony with "all thing whatsoever" Jesus "commended"? Is there a biblical word to describe this experience?

According to the definition of "conversion" you shared above does it mean people begin life as a Christian ignorantly practicing all, most, some, or none of the sinful habits they cultivated and practiced prior to experiencing conversion?

"daily advancement in the work of character-building" means maturing in the fruits of the Spirit - not gradually outgrowing cultivated sinful habits and practices. Hopefully we can agree on this point.

"separate from us our sinful habits" means to recognize and resist acting out our defects, weaknesses, and imperfections - not gradually discovering and crucifying unknown cultivated sinful habits and practices.

"Many have stumbled to ruin because of the erroneous doctrines taught by some ministers (Mt Man) concerning the change that takes place at conversion. Some have lived in sadness for years, waiting for some marked evidence that they were accepted by God. They have separated themselves in a large measure from the world, and find pleasure in associating with the people of God; yet they dare not profess Christ, because they fear it would be presumption to say that they are children of God. They are waiting for that peculiar change that they have been led to believe is connected with conversion.{Ev 286.2}
After a time some of these do receive evidence of their acceptance with God, and are then led to identify themselves with His people. And they date their conversion from this time. But I have been shown that they were adopted into the family of God before that time. God accepted them when they became weary of sin, and having lost their desire for worldly pleasures, resolved to seek God earnestly. But, failing to understand the simplicity of the plan of salvation, they lost many privileges and blessings which they might have claimed had they only believed, when they first turned to God, that He had accepted them.{Ev 286.3}
The work of grace upon the heart is not an instantaneous work. It is effected by continuous, daily watching and believing the promises of God. The repentant, believing one, who cherishes faith and earnestly desires the renewing grace of Christ, God will not turn away empty. He will give him grace. And ministering angels will aid him as he perseveres in his efforts to advance.—Manuscript 55, 1910.{Ev 287.3}

Gee wiz; I believe what you are teaching Mt Man fits into the category of teaching a form of rebirth that leads people to get sad and leave the faith because they have no special marked evidence of their conversion. But here it says that the moment we believed we were converted and that it is a daily experience. That fits with what God showed me about your ministry.

And again I ask, by your assessment of true conversion are you converted?

So when she says "When we try to separate from us our sinful habits, it may at times seem that we are tearing ourselves all to pieces" to you she didn't man to say sinful habits?

You take direct statements and twist them to fit your comprehension every single time. YOU cannot be taught can you? I have NEVER seen you admit you were wrong. Not once.

James, the reason I am unwilling to change my mind and say I am wrong is due to the simple fact I am fully persuaded. "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." What I believe is not "cunningly devised fables." It is not my "private interpretation."

I cannot agree with you, James, because you believe the biblical description of the process of conversion ends in people ignorantly practicing some of the sinful habits they cultivated prior to experiencing conversion in God's appointed way. Ignorantly breaking the Sabbath or ignorantly keeping Sunday does not constitute a cultivated sinful habit.

So then you disagree with the Spirit of Prophecy?

"The work of grace upon the heart is not an instantaneous work. It is effected by continuous, daily watching and believing the promises of God. The repentant, believing one, who cherishes faith and earnestly desires the renewing grace of Christ, God will not turn away empty. He will give him grace. And ministering angels will aid him as he perseveres in his efforts to advance.—Manuscript 55, 1910.{Ev 287.3}


"The exhortation of the apostle is, “Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.” It is by engaging in this work, and by exercising living faith in God, that we are to perfect Christian character. The work of cleansing the soul-temple and preparing for Christ's appearing must be done while we are in this world of temptation. Just as Christ finds us in character when he comes, so we shall remain. We should make daily advancement in the work of character-building. When we try to separate from us our sinful habits, it may at times seem that we are tearing ourselves all to pieces; but this is the very work that we must do if we would grow up unto the full stature of men and women in Christ Jesus, if we would become fit temples for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is not the will of God that we should remain in feebleness and darkness. He would have us put on the whole armor, and fight valiantly the battle against sin and self. And after we have truly repented of our sins, and done all that we can to overcome them, he would have us manifest a calm, unyielding trust in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. {HS 134.5, 6}

According to you when we are born again we are full grown Christians but God says we are babies that need to grow away from our sinful habits.

So were you perfect when you were born again?

Or do you consider yourself perfected in grace and Spirit?

MM - why do you keep the 7th-day Sabbath?

1. You are mistaken. I do not believe newborn babes are born again mature in the fruits of the Spirit. They are born again dead to sin and awake to righteousness. Jesus implants within them all the righteousness attributes of God, all the fruits of the Spirit. Not one is missing. They are perfect and complete in all the will of God. But they are not mature. They begin maturing in the fruits of the Spirit now, but eternity is not long enough to exhaust their potential to mature more and more.

2. Everyone who experiences the process of conversion is God's appointed way are perfect and complete in all the will of God.

3. Not sure what you mean?

Because Jesus did. He created it to be observed in a special way. What are your thoughts?