HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,631
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 21
kland 6
Daryl 2
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
Daryl
Daryl
Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 25,123
Joined: July 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
6 registered members (Karen Y, Kevin H, Daryl, dedication, TheophilusOne, 1 invisible), 3,255 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 4 - Summary Posts Only Thread) [Re: Daryl] #166664
07/07/14 08:26 AM
07/07/14 08:26 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Accommodating. Accommodating?

A matter of emphasis?

The more we accommodate the views of Satan we give him some of our sympathy.

We did have a number of "heretics" among us in the past, just as we do today. Satan is still attempting to gain the widest possible sympathy among the saints by quoting words of inspiration, just as he did in the days of Jesus Christ on earth.

If I make this emphatic it is to prevent the erosion of the faith of Jesus Christ and his revelation of the Father. God loves all of us, even if we exhibit some erroneous views.

Last edited by Johann; 07/07/14 08:28 AM.

"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 4 - Summary Posts Only Thread) [Re: Daryl] #166669
07/07/14 01:25 PM
07/07/14 01:25 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
You could say that the above remarks are the summary of my view in this area.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 4 - Summary Posts Only Thread) [Re: Daryl] #166676
07/07/14 03:16 PM
07/07/14 03:16 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
God hates sin because it destroys His people, His creation. <So God has to destroy sinners so they can't then destroy themselves?> When God steps in, it’s not because of selfish motives – “ you don’t love me so I will kill you” – ( which the opposing side has repeatedly attributed to any concept that God will actually step in and actively punish), but rather it’s to curtail and finally end evil and allow goodness to take root and have space to grow. <evil is what kills and destroys. God does not have to kill and destroy.>
Without God’s intervention there would be only death for everyone.
<God has been intervening since He first created. Death comes for the sinner when God stops intervening demanded by the sinner, such as with the fiery serpents>

God’s desire is that none be lost and suffer eternal death, but that all should come to repentance. Therefore He gave us His Son, Jesus, to die for us; accepting our penalty so we could have life!
<And how does that work? A legal pardon? Is that what we need? Great! We all have it. But are we all saved? NO> Salvation is being offered to every person alive. NONE NEED DIE <die the execution that God does to those that do not accept Him?> the eternal death which is the natural fate of every sinner. <If it is natural, then why does God kill them?> They can have forgiveness and life! If they suffer the eternal death it is because of their own choice. <But you said God kills the sinner>

Thus God destroys no man – it was He Who sent the rescue mission to a world where death was certain. It is our choice if we will embrace that life raft rescue, or continue on the road to death.

If God had not sent His Son to die for us, there would be NO RESURRECTION for anyone. The first death would be the end. The natural consequence of sin.
<And it is not the natural consequence of sin in the second death, is that what you claim? God has to step in and kill sinners.>

But because Christ is risen from the dead, everyone will be raised from the dead. (
1 Cor. 15) for one last revelation to show who chose life and salvation and who chose to reject life and embrace sin. Those who rejected the offer of life will only use their gift of “resurrected life” to seek to conquer God’s city, tear Him from the throne, and re-establish the sin society, They declare war on God’s city and people, but fire will totally cleanse the earth of all traces of sin. <Is this self-defense? Torture, what? Have you read Revelation 14 recently - I'm speaking of the war scene. Have you read in Revelation (note - Revelation) the fire scenes? Is this divine or demonic agency? Most will say divine> Sin will be no more. God's deliverance of His people will be complete.
Rev. 16:7 Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments. <here again it appears you are deaf to the SOP wheren EGW say, " I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way:" And what way is it?>

Growing up I also learned how God exercises mighty power to force sinners to do His will such as Pharoah. But I now know that force is not principle of the divine government. The fiery serpents are an example of how this works. The same principle is applied across the board. IF God did work by compelling force, should we not model His work? Green has in the past stated we need more Korah events in the church today. By beholding we become changed. If God is one that uses force to get His way, then we will do the same. We see this developing again in the apostate church today, and will see more and more in the future. Will we follow the apostate, or will we follow the LAMB where ever He goes?

The question is, does sin pay its wage, death (Romans 6:23), or does God have to inflict death? This is the summary question as I see it. Does sin when it is full grown, bring death to quote James 1:15, or it is ultimately God that has to inflict death. IF it is God doing it, why did He not let it happen in the beginning? If God had allowed sin to play out to its natural end in the beginning, the Universe would not have understood. They would have thought it was God executing them and then they would have served God from fear. It is interesting the Green thinks that we should have a fear (be afraid of) God because He will kill you in the end if you do not obey. The whole Great Controversy theme revolves around the kind of Government that God has.

It is Satan's constant effort to misrepresent the character of God, the nature of sin, and the real issues at stake in the great controversy. {GC 569.1}

One belief is that when God pronounces Judgments means that God is actively doing something. But this is not necessarily the case! When God pronouces judgments, it is stating reality, what will happen. See the following quotes. And do note, how was Jerusalem destroyed? What this God active power? Or was it God withdrawing, letting the natural consequences happen? It was the latter. And this was typical of what? The last great destruction of the world by fire! If God was not the active subject in the first, will He them be in the second? NO! And note the "judgments" the proceed the second coming! God is again not the active agency, it is the demonic at work

Christ forewarned His disciples of the destruction of Jerusalem and the signs to take place prior to the coming of the Son of man. The whole of the twenty-fourth chapter of Matthew is a prophecy concerning the events to precede this event, and the destruction of Jerusalem is used to typify the last great destruction of the world by fire.--Ms 77, 1899. {LDE 18.1}

Christ upon the Mount of Olives rehearsed the fearful judgments that were to precede His second coming: "Ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: . . . Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows" [
Matthew 24:6-8]. While these prophecies received a partial fulfillment at the destruction of Jerusalem, they have a more direct application in the last days.--5T 753 (1899). {LDE 18.2}

Summary - Sin pays its wage. Sin is the cause of ALL sickness, disease and death. Sin is the problem that needs to be solved. Christ came to save people from the consequence of their Sin. Sin is the cause of all destruction. How is God involved? In mercy, God has delayed the natural consequences in order to save as many as possible. In the end, God will allow the natural consequences to play out, and it will not be pretty. It will be horrible, but sin will be destroyed. Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 4 - Summary Posts Only Thread) [Re: Daryl] #166690
07/07/14 09:23 PM
07/07/14 09:23 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
ADMIN HAT ON!!!!!

As I see more than simply summarizing posts, I am closing this until I decide what to do with some of these posts.

ADMIN HAT OFF!!!!!


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 4 - Summary Posts Only Thread) [Re: Daryl] #166721
07/09/14 01:14 AM
07/09/14 01:14 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
ADMIN HAT ON!!!!!

After removing a couple of posts, I have re-opened this thread with a reminder not to debate another person's summary, but to simply post your own summary.

I may still end up removing a few questionable posts, but have decided to leave them here for now.

ADMIN HAT OFF!!!!!


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 4 - Summary Posts Only Thread) [Re: Daryl] #166730
07/09/14 02:14 PM
07/09/14 02:14 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Yes, Jesus has, does, and will punish the wicked. He employs different principles and agencies:

1. He causes death and destruction Himself.
2. He commands holy men and holy angels to cause death and destruction.
3. He permits evil men and evil angels to cause death and destruction.

In the end, Jesus will resurrect, judge, and execute justice and judgment by casting the wicked in a lake of fire and brimstone. Each sinner will suffer in duration and in intensity according to their wickedness. Satan will suffer and punish the longest.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 4 - Summary Posts Only Thread) [Re: Daryl] #166732
07/09/14 02:49 PM
07/09/14 02:49 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
God is perfect love.

God does not threaten, use force, or coerce.

God cannot be confused with a dictator by using similar acts to get His way. God does not have the attributes of satan.

God is not in a contest with satan to see who has the most power to force and coerce others to agree with Him. He will give each complete freedom of choice without any threats of, "Love me or I'll kill you!"

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 4 - Summary Posts Only Thread) [Re: Daryl] #166737
07/09/14 08:49 PM
07/09/14 08:49 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
My summary would go like that:

God is perfect love. He does not threaten or coerce, and He does not have the attributes of Satan. But He is the King of the universe, and sin cannot exist in His kingdom. In order to save those He can, God is tolerating sin for a time, but, in order to do this, He is temporarily putting a constraint on His own attributes. Even so, He can't permit sin to become an unchecked destructive force. In order to prevent this, He sometimes has to intervene in human history and, in mercy, remove the life of incorrigible sinners.
God has declared that sin must finally be destroyed as an evil ruinous to the universe. So, unfortunately, those who cling to sin will perish in its destruction (COL 123.3).
How will this happen? God will stop restraining His own attributes and will manifest His utter displeasure with sin. The sinner won't be able to stand this manifestation of God's glory, and will be destroyed as a result.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 05/12/24 10:01 AM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 05/06/24 12:18 PM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 05/03/24 02:55 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by dedication. 05/06/24 02:37 PM
Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:33 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:29 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:27 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by kland. 05/06/24 10:32 AM
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 10:09 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 05/02/24 08:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1