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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus
[Re: dedication]
#167539
08/17/14 12:36 AM
08/17/14 12:36 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
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"Christ has made baptism the sign of entrance to His spiritual kingdom. He has made this a positive condition with which all must comply who wish to be acknowledged as under the authority of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Before man can find a home in the church, before passing the threshold of God's spiritual kingdom, he is to receive the impress of the divine name, "The Lord our Righteousness." Jeremiah 23:6.... Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly King. They have obeyed the command: "Come out from among them, and be ye separate, ... and touch not the unclean thing." And to them is fulfilled the promise: "I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters." 2 Corinthians 6:17, 18. {FLB 145.4}
Then what to make of a rock concert for Sabbath service, interspersed with preaching & skits, played to a packed sanctuary of baptized members? ______________________
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus
[Re: Mountain Man]
#167540
08/17/14 12:40 AM
08/17/14 12:40 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Again, it amazes me people can read the promises (the biblical descriptions above) and conclude believers are born again ignorant of certain cultivated traits of character. The idea that they ignorantly practice certain evil habits because Jesus chooses to leave them in darkness is unbiblical. Sure it is unbiblical. God doesn't choose to leave anyone in darkness. The problem is in us, who can't see at once all the light God is trying to show us. The nearer the Christian lives to God, the more he advances in divine illumination of mind. He has more distinct sense of his own littleness, discerns his defects of character, and sees his duty in the light in which God presents it. The more closely he draws to Jesus, the more he has a near and clear sense of his own defects which had before escaped his notice, and he sees the necessity of humbling himself under the mighty hand of God. ... Having his eye fixed upon the purity and perfection of Christ Jesus, and acknowledging and obeying God in all his ways, he is not blinded to his own failures and imperfections. When his deportment in the eyes of men is unblamable and irreprovable, God reads the intents and purposes of the heart. {TDG 16.3} There is no such thing as an instantaneous sanctification. It is an every-day work. Says Paul, "I die daily" (1 Corinthians 15:31). He received a conversion daily to God. As the truth and Spirit of God revealed to him the defects in his character, he put away his wrong, died to self, and cleansed himself "from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Corinthians 7:1). . . . {UL 231.3}
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus
[Re: gordonb1]
#167571
08/19/14 05:00 PM
08/19/14 05:00 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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I know baptized members who were shocked when I said that baptism is a symbol of dying to self with Christ and being raised to walk in newness of life. They said they had never heard of such a thing. Were such "born of water"? Arnold, I repeat here that a long standing church elder/Bible teacher described a major upcoming It is Written crusade. According to the training sessions, new interests will be baptized before receiving Bible study. And I heard of a pastor who was studying wih a couple, and the husband died before finishing. The suggestion was made to baptize posthumously. The idea was rejected.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus
[Re: gordonb1]
#167573
08/19/14 05:07 PM
08/19/14 05:07 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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Water baptism is an external statement of an internal understanding. Given the "exceptions" on record, it seems the external statement is not what Jesus had in mind in John 3. It's even clearer once one considers the "external statement" for being born of the Spirit.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus
[Re: gordonb1]
#167574
08/19/14 05:12 PM
08/19/14 05:12 PM
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Active Member 2023
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In any case, I'm trying to dig into our true beliefs regarding being born of water. Given that such a member was baptized by immersion by a duly authorized pastor of the church and is a member in good standing, have they been born of water as Jesus required? Not sure what you mean by our true beliefs. But your question juxtaposes conventional church baptism & membership (approved by churches for membership of millions), with Christ's requirement for access to the tree of life. "..Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God...Ye must be born again." (John 3:5-7) That's the crux of my query. Is it right for us to teach that when Jesus said we MUST be born of water, that He meant baptism into the church? Is water immersion primarily salvific or evangelistic?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus
[Re: Daryl]
#167577
08/19/14 07:23 PM
08/19/14 07:23 PM
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Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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That's the crux of my query. Is it right for us to teach that when Jesus said we MUST be born of water, that He meant baptism into the church? Is water immersion primarily salvific or evangelistic? Well, EGW gave this interpretation to the verse. Nicodemus knew that Christ here referred to water baptism and the renewing of the heart by the Spirit of God. {DA 171.5} Jesus also said, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16). I think baptism is necessary for salvation, like faith, repentance, the new birth, good works... but it's not these things which save us. It's God who saves us.
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus
[Re: Daryl]
#167586
08/20/14 03:10 AM
08/20/14 03:10 AM
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Global Moderator
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"In presenting the truth to others, we should follow the example of Jesus. He did not present a great mass of truth, to be accepted all at once. He led the inquiring mind from truth to truth, from lesson to lesson, opening up the significance of the Scripture, as they were able to bear it." {RH, October 14, 1890 par. 5}
Think of the Adventists prior to 1844.
They were Sunday keepers and pork eaters (including James and Ellen White).
Yet their whole focus was preparing to meet Christ in the air. They were baptized and living in harmony with the truth they knew.
They were confessing their sins (the ones they knew were sins) and searching their hearts wanting everything to be right between them and Christ. Their commitment to Christ far exceeds the commitment seen today.
Yet, they were still keeping Sunday and eating pork, and they didn't think it was sin.
Those truths were revealed much later.
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