|
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,617
Members1,323
| |
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: asygo]
#167882
09/02/14 03:16 PM
09/02/14 03:16 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
M: Old habits are habits people have been cultivating for a long time. Jesus certainly had old habits, habits He started cultivating from birth. They were not, of course, sinful habits. The habits people cultivate during their lifetime have an affect on the children they rear and raise. This affect can be seen and felt through several generations. Although Jesus never cultivated sinful habits, He definitely battled the hereditary affects - just like every other born-again believer.
A: Never cultivated -> hereditary We call that Bait and Switch.
M: There is nothing bait and switch about believing Jesus was born with fallen human tendencies, inclinations, propensities or that He was affected and influenced by the hereditary traits and habits cultivated and passed on by His mother and ancestors.
A: It is when that was not the point on contention. If you think you did not switch contexts, that goes a long way toward explaining the confusion. I guess I wasn't clear. It is not necessary to cultivate sinful traits and habits to battle them. It is only necessary to be human. Jesus was born with the same hereditary traits and tendencies common to humans. Whether cultivated thereafter or not it doesn't matter so far as battling them is concerned. Born-again believers crucify them. They die to them. They are gifted with ingrafted new traits and tendencies. Nevertheless, they must, like Jesus, battle with the latent, residual affects of sinful traits and tendencies.
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: asygo]
#167883
09/02/14 03:23 PM
09/02/14 03:23 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Each day he must renew his consecration, each day do battle with evil. Old habits, hereditary tendencies to wrong, will strive for the mastery, and against these he is to be ever on guard, striving in Christ's strength for victory. {AA 476.3} Given that, it is clear that though Jesus battled evil, it was not "just like a born-again believer" since such a one battles his old habits. Battling sinful traits and tendencies is the same whether cultivated or inherited. That's how hereditary laws work - for weal or woe. Again, inheriting and possessing sinful traits and tendencies does not count as sinning. No one incurs guilt or condemnation for merely inheriting or having them. Thus, Jesus could be tempted from within without being defiled.
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#167890
09/02/14 05:28 PM
09/02/14 05:28 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
|
|
So , Jesus was born with old habits, like the rest of us. And battling cultivated tendencies are just the same as battling inherited ones. Hmmmmm.....
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#167892
09/02/14 07:34 PM
09/02/14 07:34 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
Christ bore the sins and infirmities of the race as they existed when He came to the earth to help man. In behalf of the race, with the weaknesses of fallen man upon Him, He was to stand the temptations of Satan upon all points wherewith man would be assailed.-- {RH, July 28, 1874 par. 3}
Read that a few times and let the words sink in what she is saying.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: APL]
#167899
09/03/14 02:09 AM
09/03/14 02:09 AM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
|
|
Reading the same thing over and over may be your mode of study, but I have a different style: read other statements to see if they match what you think this one says.
Bore? Had? Born with? Not all the same.
Weakness? Temptations? Inherent propensities to sin? Cultivated tendencies to evil? Not all the same.
But then, to realize that, you'll have to read more than one quote.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#167904
09/03/14 01:48 PM
09/03/14 01:48 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
Interesting how you can make such profound conclusions asygo from one post. How "a few time" gets translated "over and over" and "you'll have to read more than one quote" implying one does not "read other statements". You last reply - what it useful? Did it add to the discussion? Did you provide evidence of what you claim you do by adding more quotes? Nope. One has to ask what was the purpose of your last post.
The Bible says that Christ was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin, Hebrews 4:15. But asygo, you claim no He was not, because He did not have any old habits to overcome. Perhaps you are not aware of epigenetics and how evil habits of our ancestors can get propagated to their offspring. EGW has been confirmed by science when she writes:
In past generations, if mothers had informed themselves in regard to the laws of their being, they would have understood that their constitutional strength, as well as the tone of their morals and mental faculties, would in a great measure be represented in their offspring. Their ignorance upon this subject, where so much is involved, is criminal.--{HL (Part 2) 37, 1865.} {2SM 431} {1MCP 142.4}
Was Christ devoid of this in His genetics? It would have been an almost infinite humiliation for the Son of God to take man's nature, even when Adam stood in his innocence in Eden. But Jesus accepted humanity when the race had been weakened by four thousand years of sin. Like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity. What these results were is shown in the history of His earthly ancestors. He came with such a heredity to share our sorrows and temptations, and to give us the example of a sinless life. {DA 48.5}
I have 75 pages more of EGW quotes on the topic, which is more that one quote in case you wanted to continue to count, which you can use to compare what she is saying on the topic so you can see if they match.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: APL]
#167914
09/03/14 04:24 PM
09/03/14 04:24 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
|
|
I have 75 pages more of EGW quotes on the topic, which is more that one quote in case you wanted to continue to count, which you can use to compare what she is saying on the topic so you can see if they match. I trust that your 75 pages includes quotes on people born with vitiated blood, and quotes on mothers passing on traits, both good and bad, to their children. Do you really believe that Jesus, born of one favored by heaven, had the same epigenetic inheritance as the worst of humanity? Or do the worst sinners have it worse than Jesus? Is one who keeps all of God's law in the same spiritual pit, witht the same spiritual drawbacks, as one who wilfully breaks all 10 commandments?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: APL]
#167916
09/03/14 04:29 PM
09/03/14 04:29 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
|
|
Interesting how you can make such profound conclusions asygo from one post. How "a few time" gets translated "over and over" and "you'll have to read more than one quote" implying one does not "read other statements". You last reply - what it useful? Did it add to the discussion? Did you provide evidence of what you claim you do by adding more quotes? Nope. One has to ask what was the purpose of your last post. The answer is simple: to show that you are imbalanced. But whether you have realized it yet is another story. That you did not discern the allusions in my post, thinking that it added nothing, shows that your study has not been comprehensive. But your pride in your own scholarship hinders you from filling the gaps.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#167917
09/03/14 05:04 PM
09/03/14 05:04 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
|
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.
[Re: APL]
#167928
09/04/14 02:13 PM
09/04/14 02:13 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
|
|
I see that you are unable to address Mary's epigenetic enigma. Empty? Only because you are unable or unwilling to see.
The drunkard may turn to the Savior in despair, but pride sees no need.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
|
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|
