"Interesting GLL. I've read it through. I'll look at it more carefully now. In the mean time, is that totally the same way you see it?"

Yes it is. The revelations and explanations are quite clear and far-reaching.

"GLL, am I missing something in how I interpret Ellen White on the ten horns? Brother Houteff says they are anti-religious. Isn't Ellen White saying they are Protestantism?"

Here is further light on this subject.

DOES THE BEAST OF REVELATION 17 MAKE THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13 BABYLON?

Please explain: If the beast of Revelation 13:1 represents the papacy (Great Controversy 439:1), and if the woman of Revelation 17 is Babylon, then is not the beast of Revelation 13:1 also Babylon, and thus the S.D.A. church?

Turn to the illustration on p. 84 of Vol. 2 of "The Shepherd's Rod" and concentrate on the symbols as set forth therein. Note how perfectly each symbol defines itself. For an example, the Word of God explains that the horns on the non-descript beast are "ten kings that shall arise. (Dan. 7:24.)

That is, the horns did not have their sovereign power as yet. Therefore, they were crownless, but the horns on the leopard-like beast are crowned, showing that it represents the period when those kings (horns) received their kingdoms.

The non-descript beast in its first stage is a representation of the world during the reign of imperial Rome, and in its second stage depicts the papal despotism. Though this beast by "the little horn" represented the papacy, he also prophetically represented the nations of today.

Hence the beast, as a whole, is not the papacy, but the world with its civil and religious systems. This same condition exists with the leopard-like beast, for it also has 10 horns (the civil governments), and seven heads (the religious systems) -- the world.

The papal phase of the non-descript beast is represented by a symbol composed of two elements -- horn and head. The horn part depicts a civil power and the head part, a religious system, -- the papacy. This fact is again proven by the symbolism of the leopard-like beast.

The papacy is here described only by the head which was wounded, showing that the ten crowned horns and the remaining six heads, which had not been wounded, are not the papacy. Consequently, neither one of the beasts in their entirety are the papacy, for the papacy is only a part of them.

To prove who anti-typical Babylon is, and who is not, we shall draw an illustration by ancient Israel -- the church of God. They were called apart from the world, though in the world. This separation made two great divisions; namely, the church and the world.

Though ancient Israel was carried into Babylon they were, as a people, still Israelites. So it was with the early Christian church when she fell into the hands of the papacy --anti-typical Babylon. The church herself was not Babylon, but was under the subjection of Babylon, -- the pope as head of baptized paganism.

The same is true with the Protestant churches. They in reality are not Babylon and thus far only to a degree have they subjected themselves to Babylon. Says the "Great Controversy": "Not until...the union of the church with the world shall be fully accomplished throughout Christendom, will the fall of Babylon be complete.

The change is a progressive one, and the perfect fulfillment of Rev. 14:8 is yet future." (Great Controversy, p. 390.)

Therefore, a confederation of the Christian churches, united with civil governments (Great Controversy, p. 442) will form a likeness of the papacy; namely, church and state (horn-head). To construct such a combination is nothing less than to bring to life the spirit of intolerance and persecution that was manifested by the papacy before receiving "the wound." (Rev. 13:3.)

Thus the papal broken rock being cemented together by the two-horned beast (Rev. 13:14) is the formation of the image to the leopard-like beast in the period when prevailing against the saints of the Most High for 42 months (Dan. 7:25; Rev. 13:5), to which the Great Controversy, p. 445 is calling our attention.

All who allow themselves to be put in subjection to this forth-coming religio-political power, which is nothing less than Babylon the third; that is, ancient Babylon to whom God's people were placed in subjection for 70 years was the first, the wearing out of the saints by the papacy for "a times, and times, and the dividing of time" (Dan. 7:25) was the second; and the Image of the beast" above mentioned is the third, of which the scarlet colored beast of Rev. 17 is symbolical.

This is the only beast in the Revelation that is called Babylon, of which the S.D.A. church cannot be a part. (Testimonies to Ministers, 58, 59.) When Babylon the third comes into power, she is again to fall as predicted in the Revelation 18:2-24.

Each one of the beasts contain a special lesson. The non-descript, by the little horn, reveals the rise of the papacy. The leopard-like points to the Reformation by the wound on one of his heads. But in the second place, the leopard-like also discloses the fact, by the blasphemy over his heads, that the churches of today have rejected the Word of God -- the messages.

The healing of his wound brings in the world a similar religious condition to that before the beast was wounded; that is, treading down the truth as it was between the years of 508 A.D. and 538 A.D.; namely, casting the "truth to the ground" (Dan. 8:12), which fact brought about the establishment of the papacy and the commencement of the 1260 year period. See illustration in "The Shepherd's Rod," Vol. 2, p. 128.

As the great apostasy at that time prepared the way for setting up the papacy, so the healing of the wound in 1929 is preparatory for making an image to the beast, -- of the papacy. In order to protect the "very elect" -- the 144,000 -- from falling a prey to the image of the beast, God is now getting ready to cut off the wicked from among the righteous by the fulfillment of Ezekiel Nine. Thus God prevents His church from be coming involved in Babylon.

The two-horned beast represents the power that is to be instrumental in making the image, or likeness of the old papal system as above explained. By the scarlet colored beast is depicted a church union, confederated with the world.

The S.D.A. church is symbolized on the leopard-like beast to the extent that it reveals she, like the rest of the Christian churches, rejected the messages brought to her in 1888 and 1930. Some may attempt to question this interpretation of the symbolism, but they cannot deny the fact that the messages were not accepted. This being true proves the symbolism correct.

The name over the heads of the leopard-like is not "Babylon" but "blasphemy" instead. Every message comes by inspiration, for otherwise it would be no message from God, because the Bible says that "holy men of God (messengers) spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Pet. 1:21.)

Therefore, to reject such a message is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. (Matt. 12:31.) As all the churches rejected the messages sent directly to them, the name of blasphemy over the heads is a most logical symbol. Hence, there is no ground upon which one can correctly conclude that the symbolism of the leopard-like makes the church "Babylon."

The leopard-like is a composite beast of all the beasts before it. His mouth of a lion (Babylon), feet of a bear (Medo-Persia), body of a leopard (Grecia), the 10 horns (of the non-descript beast -- Rome), the wounded head (Catholicism), the unharmed ones (Protestantism), and the crowns (the kingdoms of today), again prove that the leopard-like beast is a symbol of the whole world.

The S.D.A. church (head) being represented on the beast (world) by a symbol of the same likeness (head) as the other six churches (heads) would make the S.D.A. church no more Babylon than it would make her Medo-Persia, or Grecia, or something else. In fact, it would have been illogical if all of the seven churches (candlesticks -- Rev, 1:20) were not represented by a symbol of the same likeness as that of the other six churches (Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, and Philadelphia) for they (the early Christian and Protestant churches), too, were once God's chosen churches as the Laodicean is now.

The symbolism is not placing the church in Babylon, but in the world (Egypt), and the evidence is so plain, both by the symbols and by the church's condition, that it does not require an angel to recognize this fact.

Though the "Shepherd's Rod" plainly says that the church is in "Egypt," which point the opponents of the Rod are not trying to controvert, and while the Rod contends, through and through, that the church is not Babylon, they accuse it of saying it is! which in comparison means the same as to call black, white, and white, black.

Moreover, as the churches are symbolized in "The Revelation" by seven candlesticks (Rev. 1:20), the symbolism must include the early Christian church, later the Protestants, and at last the Seventh-day Adventists, or the Laodiceans.

These churches are not only symbolized by candlesticks of the same likeness, but are also all grouped together as are the seven heads on the leopard-like beast. If the assemblage of the candlesticks does not make the Laodiceans Babylon, why will the heads?
(Sym. Code, vol. 1 , no. 4, p.6-8)

It took me awhile to follow your connections, but as I believe dedication suggested, could some of these things overlap? That is, could protestantism be apostate churches and could civil leaders also be protestants? Could civil leaders of the world, influenced and manipulated and controlled and coerced by protestantism, be the ones to give their kingdom to the beast? And all of it motivated by the dragon?

If Babylon is false religion, what is protestantism?

GLL, the post doesn't clearly identify the ten horns of Rev 17's scarlet beast. Houteff has already said they are anti-religious which rules out Protestantism and contradicts Ellen White's view unless you apply them to after the close of probation when both Catholic and Protestant laymen see they've been mislead and devour the whore. That view has the flaw that it means the ten kings are both Catholics and Protestants but according to Ellen White they (the ten kings) are not both.

Kland, as you suggest, the ten kings have a political dimension as well as a religious one. That's the reason there are ten of them in my view - ten political entities - likely nations but possibly territories or something else. The Lamb-like beast is a coalition builder. It bids the world make the image and it succeeds by forming alliances.

I'm not sure I agree, but I could see how it could fit. But many Muslims deny the attitude expressed. So which ones are the "true" ones? But then, does it matter if you are a terrorist?


United Religions against Terrorism
Pope to be Head of United Religions

Why is it when I read it, I have to read it carefully or it comes across as United Nations? That is, is it my personal reading problem, or was it intentionally designed that way?

Will try and look a little more into the ten horns. I think he covers them in other writings as well. Have some comments about EGW but will do so when I find more.

Brother Mark, this is very encompassing and covers in detail much of what you are seeking I think. It's a study guide based on Houteff's interpretive work on Revelation studies. Note that the prediction is made near end of study, that in the upcoming gigantic world war (over Israel) the "communists" (ie. Russia and China) shall prove victorious yet by God's power, soonafter submit to the religious world wide confederacy--amazing stuff here!


THE SCARLET-COLORED BEAST--Revelation 17

INTRODUCTION:
This study describes what will take place when the Image of the beast system becomes international.—world-wide, and how it will fail.

Read:
Rev. 17:1-6

1.What Does A Woman Symbolize?—a church.
See Jer. 6:2; GC 381.

2.This Woman Is An Apostate Church
a. This woman is a prostitute (verse 5)
b. She is described as Babylon…abominations of the earth.

3.This Woman Is Not Specifically The Papacy
Read:Rev. 18:24

The woman is responsible for "ALL that were slain upon the earth."
The first person slain for their faith was ABEL. Thus the woman goes back to the time of Cain and Abel.
Read:Rev. 19:1-7

These verses show that the woman was destroyed around the time of the close of probation. But the Papacy will exist up to the 2nd coming of Christ. (2 Thes. 2:3,8; GC 321, 579).

4.Further Explanation:
a. Rev. 19: 1-7, mentions the four beasts, twenty-four elders, the throne, etc., IN THE HEAVENLY SANCTUARY-TEMPLE. The fact that persons are still in the heavenly temple/sanctuary, is proof that the plagues have not yet fallen, and that probation is closing, and that the plagues have not been poured out. See Rev. 15:1, 7,8.

b. THE WOMAN WAS ALREADY DESTROYED WHILE PROBATION WAS CLOSING and the plagues had not yet been poured out. (See Rev. 19:2, 3).

c. The PAPACY will exist up the 2nd coming AND WILL BE DESTROYED BY CHRIST AT HIS COMING. (2 Thes. 2: 3, 8; GC 321, 356, 579).

Summary:
The woman therefore, could not specifically be the Papacy. The Papacy came to power in 538 A.D. -the new Testament era. The woman REPRESENTS A COUNTERFEIT RELIGIOUS SYSTEM OR IDEOLOGY which is older than the Papacy —A false belief system that goes back to the time of CAIN.

It was Cain who purported the first false doctrine (false sacrifice) and killed his brother Abel.
Obviously, the Papacy is a part of the woman. The woman takes on
different forms as she has progressed down through time. In other words, the woman initially represented Paganism, but was later on fused into Christianity during the dark ages—then she was known as the Papacy. This further indicates that Rome's doctrines are not new, but in fact went back to the very father of false religion on earth—Cain.

So the image of the beast system is not based on new doctrines or new ideas. It is built on a belief system that encompasses all religions—eastern and western.

5.Her Three Exploits Or Outstanding Periods.
a. Sitting on the waters (verse l)-during the dark ages—the time of the Papacy when this false system of worship controlled many nations—"waters."

b. Sitting on the seven heads (verse 9)-when the woman unites all the churches together-when Protestantism, Catholicism, and Spiritualism unite. (5T 451; GC 589).

c. Sitting on the Scarlet-colored beast (SCB)-(verse 3)—during the one-world government. Her sitting on the beast must be her last act.

6.What Is The Meaning Of The SCB?
Scarlet
Full of sin/cursed. God's people will be called out of it. Rev. 18:1-4; EW 33; John 10:16.

Names of blasphemy
Full of sin and corruption and hypocrisy.
Ten Horns
Civil powers—governments. Note that the horns have no crowns showing that the authority and control rests with the woman.

Seven --The religious bodies in existence at the time of the mark of the beast. Note that the SDA church would have already been purified so they are NOT included. (1 SC 17:6).

7.Revelation 17:8
Was --before the millennium
Is Not --During the millennium—when the wicked are dead in their graves-Rev. 20:1-3,5.
Yet Is --After the millennium when all the wicked dead are resurrected. Rev. 20:3, 7, 8.

Bottomless Pit
The earth in chaos and as a prison house for Satan, his angels and the wicked during the 1,000 years. Rev. 20:3, 5. GC 658.

Perdition -A destruction from which there is no resurrection.—after the millennium the wicked will be destroyed by fire from God.

They That Dwell On The Earth--
After all the wicked (whose names are not written in the book of Life) are resurrected, they will marvel ("wonder") when they see all the wicked from the beginning of time ("from the foundation of the world")

8.Revelation 17:9
Heads and mountains in Scripture represent religious bodies. 2
Therefore, the seven heads forecast the unification of the churches (see the woman's three exploits in this outline).

9.Revelation 17:10
Five Fallen --Five kingdoms have fallen—past: (1) Adamic kingdom (2) Babylon (3) Media-Persia (4) Grecia (5) Rome.

One Is -Our present world—same as the ten toes. This period covers the Leopard-like Beast (LLB), Two-horned Beast (THB), and the Scarlet-colored Beast (SCB).

Not Yet Come --The wicked (world) after the millennium.

Continue a Short Space --The 100 years after the millennium just before the wicked are destroyed. Isa. 65:20; Rev. 20: 3. (same as the little season).

10.Revelation 17:11
Was --Before the millennium.

Is Not --During the millennium

He Is The Eighth --He is the eighth beast—all the beast from Daniel 7 and Revelation:
(1) Lion
(2) Bear
(3) Leopard
(4) Non-descript beast
(5) Leopard-like beast
(6) Two-horned beast
(7) Scarlet-colored beast [SCB] BEFORE the millennium
(8) SCB AFTER the millennium.

Is Of The Seven --The SCB—all the wicked AFTER the millennium, is a composite of all the previous beasts-kingdoms. He has all the characteristics of all the former beasts.

Goes Into Perdition --The SCB AFTER millennium (the eighth beast), represents all the wicked who are cast into a lake of fire and destroyed. (Rev. 20: 8-10).

11.What Do The Ten Horns Of The SCB Represent?
Civil Powers

12.Revelation 17:12,13
Horns represent civil or Political entities. These horns:
a. Are kings but have not yet received there kingdom.
b. They have the authority as kings for one hour.
c. They have one mind—they are unified in their thinking and planning.
d. Instead of taking the rulership, they give it away for the one hour.
e. They give their kingdom (rulership) away because God put it in their heart to do it (Rev. 17:17).
f. The ONE HOUR is the same as the 11th to 12th hour (Matt. 20:6,7)-the loud cry period.

13.What Civil Powers Do The Horns Represent?
Communist or Communist-like powers

a. Only Communists profess NO religion—They despise it. The ten horns hated and destroyed the woman (religion). (Rev. 17:16)

b. REV. 18: 9-11. The kings in this passage are crying because the woman is destroyed. These kings must be DEMOCRATIC-THEY LOVE RELIGION (the woman). They must also be Capitalists because they are "merchants" (verses 11,12). Therefore, these kings in Rev. 18:9, cannot be the same as the ones who destroyed her in REV. 17:16.

There are TWO TYPES OF KINGS-those that LOVE the woman [democratic/capitalists] and those that HATE her [Communist/Communist-like].

Summary:
This reveals that Communism will appear to dominate the world's political seat, but instead will give up their right to rule the world, by giving their power to the Mark of the beast system (the SCB) which is controlled by the Beast (666) and the False Prophet through the woman (the false religious system or beliefs). Thus, this religious-political system will not be purely Communist or Democratic, but Ecclesiastical. It will unite Catholicism, apostate Protestantism, and Spiritualism together under a so-called NEW WORLD ORDER.

Note:
The democratic nations (ie USA) will see victory in surrendering their power to the church (the woman) because it will be denied them in WAR. (12 Tr 54; 2TG 41:18). Therefore, the Communist will gain the upper hand politically because the USA and the other nations - members of western society will fall in a gigantic war. But God will put it in the hearts of the Communists to surrender their rulership to the image of the beast. God does this so that the Gospel can gather the Great Multitude. (Rev. 17:18).

14.Revelation 17:14
These kings are to be anti-religious and therefore anti-Christian. They shall eventually make war with the Lord and with His called, chosen, and faithful ones, but "the lamb shall overcome" them.

15.Revelation 17:15
Waters represent people.

16.Revelation 17:16,17,18
After the gospel is completed, the Communist powers will destroy the New World Order-the Mark of the beast system. This will take place around the close of probation. (Rev. 18:1-7). Then the plagues will fall. So Babylon's rule will be short-lived. At that point the GM would have already been gathered.

Further Study
2 SR 111-125,148-162
2 TG 18,36
12 Tr 30 -41, 53 -57.

Education Department
Davidic Levitical Institute
Mt. Carmel Center
Mountain Dale, New York 12763

I noticed a comment from you GLL earlier on this thread that the Shepard's Rod believe or promote the 1888 message. Would you mind opening a thread on that if that's the case? How do you/they see that critical message? What is their understanding of it?

Regarding equating the ten kings with communism, I used to do that myself until I noticed that Ellen White says they represent Protestantism. Houteff, you, the Shepard's Rod and I were all wrong.

Do you know where that was said? I tried looking just now and this page from Maranatha was all I could find in which the ten horns are mentioned in connection with any interpretation of them. I don't know where they got that from because there's no references to any of Ellen White's writings.

The wording on that page is odd, too. When they say-
"What is it that gives its kingdom to this power? Protestantism, a power which, while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb and to be allied to Heaven, speaks with the voice of a dragon. It is moved by a power from beneath."
are they equating the ten horns with the lamb like beast? That doesn't seem right.

The King of the North in the last verses of Daniel eleven represents the so called Christian Nations which will unite under the pope to combat terrorism. Yes, this represents especially the civil leaders, as well as the people.

The term "United Religions" is meant to evoke thoughts of the United Nations.

Years ago I did a study on comparing some of "Marian" predictions (the enemies strategy) with EGW's interpretations.

EGW says God's people will be accused of the most vile crimes
See GC88 591

How is this to take place?
Just consider a Unity of Religions working to "restore peace" on the earth and how they would consider stubborn believers who refuse to join their program.


--God's people will be accused of denying God because they do not recognize the papal authority as the shepherd of spiritual life for the world.

--God's people will be accused of rejecting God's law, because they reject the changed papal version of the law.

--God's people will be accused of supporting terriosm because they cannot join the religious union.


--God's people will be accused of hedonism because they believe that ultimately every person is personally responsible for their commitment and obedience to God.

--God's people will be accused of siding with what the religious union calls anti-Christ, as well as accused with siding with atheism and any other "evil" that the "religious union" opposes.

The king of the North will appear to be quite successful at first.
The king of the South-- radical Muslims will be overcome, most of the rest will fall in line and become part of the "union of religions". This is outlined in Daniel 11: 40-45.

"Mary" and the supernatural manifestations that represent her will be a unifying element. Millions of Catholics travel to shrines to pray before her image. But what is not commonly known is that Muslims also hold her in high regard
See Mary Queen of All

Jerusalem will be a great center of this "unity of religions" under the papal leadership.



But it won't work -- because God's blessing isn't in it.
Because they are actually fighting against God and His law and government, even though it was looking very much like they were fighting for God. Rather than bringing in peace, the world plunges into trouble more than ever before.

God will deliver His people.
Yes, there will be people from every tribe and nation who "escape" the great delusion and are true to God.

And when those leaders who accepted the delusion realize what they accepted, they will turn "Babylon".