Indeed. If Hitler had been allowed to conquer everyone (supposing they could not fight), Bible prophecy would have been defeated. The image of Daniel 2 would have been falsified.

I believe America did as God willed in that war.

Ellen White answers APL more eloquently than I could on this question, however.



That is plain. God sometimes requires His people to go to war. At the same time, it is sin for His people to question God's wisdom in requiring thus.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

So terribly blinded had they become by transgression. The Lord had never commanded them to "go up and fight." It was not His purpose that they should gain the land by warfare, but by strict obedience to His commands. {PP 392.3}

That is also plain.

"But the children of Israel did fight throughout all their natural existence, and under God's direction, too," it will be urged. That is very true, but it does not at all prove that it was God's purpose that they should fight. We must not forget that "their minds were blinded" by unbelief, so that they could not perceive the purpose of God for them. They did not grasp the spiritual realities of the kingdom of God, but were content with shadows instead; and the same God who bore with their hardness of heart in the beginning, and strove to teach them by shadows, when they would not have the substance, still remained with them, compassionately considerate of their infirmities. God himself suffered them, because of the hardness of their hearts, to have a plurality of wives, and even laid down rules regulating polygamy, in order to diminish as far as possible the resulting evils, but that does not prove that He designed it for them. We well know that "from the beginning it was not so." So when Jesus forbade His followers to fight in any cause whatever, He introduced nothing new, any more than when He taught that a man should have but one wife, and should cleave to her as long as he lived. He was simply enunciating first principles--preaching a thorough reformation. {1900 EJW, EVCO 385.2}

The radical Jesus is hard to accept.

APL,

Do you accept the fact that Mrs. White is saying God has required His people to "make war with other nations"?

Whether or not you do, I will not blind myself to this fact in order to suit fancy, pride, or opinion. I hope you will yet choose a similar course.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green - do you accept the fact that EGW said that the Children or Israel had no need to fight? But fight they did! And with God's direction to! But it was not God's plan. You say you see, but are you really blind? John 9:39-41

You cannot make sense of it, APL, can you? You say they fought, "with God's direction to," but without a "need to fight?" If you can make sense of that, I surely cannot.

Yes, they had not been instructed to go up and fight at the time that they did so. There were other times when God instructed otherwise. Your difficulty is encountered when you try to make a hard and fast rule from a single instruction which you think must be unilaterally applied to all and sundry circumstances ever after. But God is not like that.

Yes, there were times when God had not instructed His people to fight, and they rebelliously did so anyhow. I accept that fully. But once again, while I am quite willing to answer a question straightly, it is observed that you seem unable to do so.

Do you accept the fact that Mrs. White is saying God has required His people to "make war with other nations"?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

What you don't accept is how God has dealt with the unbelief and hard-hearted. I have used the example of divorce, which you will immediately say is off topic which demonstrates how God works. Even deleting posts which use the principle. God gave laws for divorce, you can't deny that. But divorce was NEVER in God's plan. There is no difference with that and the war the people insisted on, so blinded by unbelief.

The 3-Angels message is all about righteousness by Faith. The Old Covenant was the people making the promise that THEY would keep the rules by their own works. It failed as it always will fail. The 3 angels messages are all about who God is, and what He is like, and central to this is a knowledge of the Character of God.

Read EGW by what all she says on the topic. Can you do that without taking one soundbite? Put all the pieces together. The people NEVER needed to fight. And yet they fought. YOU claim it is because God required it. That is not how I read it at all. The People fought, and just as divorce, SAME PRINCIPLE, God gave instructions.

APL, your unwillingness to pray for our troops is not only unpatriotic, it is also ungrateful. Our troops fight to preserve freedom. Perhaps living under an oppressive government, like North Korea, might motivate you to appreciate your blood-bought, hard-fought freedom. Some people live their entire lives in ignorance of Jesus and in fear of their government. That could be you if you had your wishes (do not resist godless dictators like Hitler).

Patriotic? Patriotic? True patriotism is the love of one's country above all other countries: so much so that the true patriot willingly lays down his life for his country. Patriotism itself is love of country. And the country, the love of which is patriotism, is the country of one's birth, or of one's adoption by naturalization. Are you hearing me so far? The Christian birth is the new birth: it is the being "born again," which is being "born from above." And this "above," the place from which the Christian is born, is heaven.

True patriotism is "the spirit that originating in love of country, prompts to obedience to its laws; to the support and defense of its existence, rights, and institutions; and to the promotion of its welfare." The Christian's country, being only the heavenly country, Christian patriotism is nothing else than the spirit that prompts to obedience to its laws; to the support and defense of its existence, rights, and institutions; and to the promotion of its welfare.

The spirit that, as to the Christian, originates in the love of the Christian's country, is none other than the Holy Spirit. For without being born again, there can be no Christian; and there being no Christian, there can be no love of the Christian's country—no Christian patriotism. And being born again is to be born of the Spirit. Therefore without the Holy Spirit's creating the new creature and the new life, there can be no Christian patriotism.

Are you a Christian patriot? Do you love the Christian's country above all other countries? Have you the spirit that prompts obedience to the laws of that country, above all other laws? that supports and defends its existence, rights, and institutions above and against those of all other countries?

But may not Christian patriotism, this support and defense of the rights and institutions of the Christian's country, involve fighting?—It not only may, but it certainly does. Listen: "Fight the good fight of faith." "The weapons of our warfare are not carnal," yet they are "mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds. Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

"Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints."

Are you a Christian patriot?

APL, you can't even pray for our troops. That is very unpatriotic. It is unAmerican.

Do you say the same thing to the Christian from Africa? South America? Europe? Are you a follower of Christ or the World? Is your allegiance to the image of the beast? Where is your citizenship? And how do you know that I pray for? Did someone tell you? Who?

Are you a Christian Patriot MM?