APL, there was war in heaven. Was war in heaven His will? No, of course not. But He was willing to permit it. The same is true here on earth. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Not only did Jesus permit war in heaven, He also fought and cast down to earth one-third of the angels. After He created A&E Jesus worked to ensure the evil angels did not tempt them above or beyond what He was willing to allow.

If rape, abuse and murder is happening, is it God's will that they happen? By your definition, yes.

Your logic is the equivalent of saying if God gives you money, it is His will that you spend it on beer, lottery tickets, and cigarettes. That logic is fallacious.

God has given us freedom of choice. This is His will. If we misuse our freedom, that is our will, it makes God sad, but He will not "fix the problem" by removing our freedom of choice.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

A: . . . God's will is not happening universally on earth.

M: APL, there was war in heaven. Was war in heaven His will? No, of course not. But He was willing to permit it. The same is true here on earth. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Not only did Jesus permit war in heaven, He also fought and cast down to earth one-third of the angels. After He created A&E Jesus worked to ensure the evil angels did not tempt them above or beyond what He was willing to allow.

A: What if God had not allowed the war in heaven? Was the possible for Him to do? Or did He HAVE to let it play out? The Will of God is encoded in His law. It was never God's will that sin exist. God does not force allegiance. He grants freedom of will, that they may render Him voluntary service. The devil perverted that freedom. Now that sin has started, God has to let it play out to show the true nature of sin and it results. The results of sin is death, not execution by God as so many believe. Christ demonstrated the results of sin on the cross so that we are without excuse. God had to let sin play out or else the universe would have served Him from fear. We have no reason to be afraid of God.

1. You mean it as in Jesus wants evil men to hurt innocent people. 2. I mean it as in He is willing to allow it to play out that way for reasons that make sens to Him.

A: Yeah - taking that tack, when you comfort a woman (or man) who was raped, you can with a kind voice tell them that God allowed it because it was the best thing to do... Why we we pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven is God's will is being done on earth? It is because God's will IS NOT being done on earth.

The above is only one way Jesus maintains control. There are times when He causes, times when He commands, and times when He permits. He always manages the outcome of choices in the one and only best way.

I believe Jesus is willing to allow choices to play out the way they do for reasons that make sense to Him. He rarely shares the reasons with us. But by faith we trust Him. People who love and trust Jesus fare better than those who do not. People who get mad at Him and hate him are way worse off.

Jesus works to ensure evil men and evil angels do not exceed the limits He Himself sets. He permits them to choose evil but He reserves the right to manage the outcome of their evil choices. He is in control. They are free to choose but not free to exceed the limits Jesus establishes and enforces. Things play out the way they do because Jesus works to ensure they do not exceed His limits.

You also believe Jesus establishes and enforces limits. But you also believe Jesus respects freewill and allows evil choices to play out the way evildoers desire. How do you reconcile the two?

For some reason you think your view makes Jesus look good. You believe Jesus is willing to allow evildoers to rape, murder, and steal because He respects their freewill more than He does that of their victims.