|
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,600
Members1,323
| |
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
6 registered members (Karen Y, dedication, ProdigalOne, Kevin H, Daryl, 1 invisible),
2,954
guests, and 18
spiders. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: What does God require before we are baptized?
#17012
03/02/06 03:30 PM
03/02/06 03:30 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Tom, tell me the truth - Are we born in need of rebirth? If so, why?
PS - I'm sorry you suspect I'm purposefully trying to annoy you.
|
|
|
Re: What does God require before we are baptized?
#17013
03/03/06 04:21 AM
03/03/06 04:21 AM
|
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
|
|
Well, aren't you? Why else would you post something starting with "I'm glad we agree ..." when you know we don't?
Jesus said, "You must be born again." We must be born again, which is to say justified by faith, because all we like sheep have gone astray; we have each one gone his own way.
|
|
|
Re: What does God require before we are baptized?
#17014
03/03/06 02:11 PM
03/03/06 02:11 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Tom, be assured that I wasn't trying to annoy you. Jesus is my witness. It makes me sad you doubt me. I thought we were better friends than that.
We agree that we are born in need of rebirth. But we may disagree as to why. I believe it is because "all have sinned", that is, we started sinning from the moment of consciousness in the womb. I do not believe we are guilty and condemned in Adam.
|
|
|
Re: What does God require before we are baptized?
#17015
03/03/06 02:46 PM
03/03/06 02:46 PM
|
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
|
|
quote:
Tom, be assured that I wasn't trying to annoy you. Jesus is my witness. It makes me sad you doubt me. I thought we were better friends than that.
Ok, you weren't trying to annoy me. What were you doing? Why post "I'm glad we agree ..." regarding something you know we don't agree on? How could you not know that's annoying? You're not stupid.
quote:
We agree that we are born in need of rebirth. But we may disagree as to why. I believe it is because "all have sinned", that is, we started sinning from the moment of consciousness in the womb. I do not believe we are guilty and condemned in Adam.
I think you're confused as to my position. Why do you think the corporate aspect necessitates being born again?
Let me give an anology which I hope will help. On Jan. 1, 1863, I think it was, Lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation. At that point the slaves were corporately freed. However individually they only became free when they heard the good news and believed it. That's why the government sent out agents to tell them about it.
Hearing the good news and believing is analagous to being born again.
Ellen White says that Christ signed the emancipation papers of the human race with His blood.
|
|
|
Re: What does God require before we are baptized?
#17016
03/04/06 03:04 AM
03/04/06 03:04 AM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Right, Jesus made eternal salvation possible - not inevitable. We both agree. Again, however, we disagree as to why we must be born again.
|
|
|
Re: What does God require before we are baptized?
#17017
03/04/06 04:15 AM
03/04/06 04:15 AM
|
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
|
|
You keep switching subjects, I'm guessing due to a misunderstanding. Regarding being born again, here is what I believe: quote:
How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. (DA 175, 176)
Well this is more how than why, but the why can be discerned from that.
Here's a good quote as to why.
quote:
Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. (ST 1/20/90)
|
|
|
Re: What does God require before we are baptized?
#17018
03/04/06 02:09 PM
03/04/06 02:09 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Tom, we both agree that we must be born again in order to benefit eternally from the life and death of Jesus. Why? Because we are born lost. That's my point. If your point is different than mine, then your'e right, I'm not following you.
I understand that the life and death of Jesus demonstates the love and character of our heavenly Father in such a way that it motivates us to love Jesus more dearly. That is, once it dawns upon us. Most people do not catch on right away. It comes much later.
I'm not sure why you are resisting the idea that we are born lost and must, therefore, be born again. You keep insisting that we are born saved. You also seem to believe we are born justified. If this is what you're saying then it's not a problem of me not understanding your position it's a matter of me not agreeing with it.
I agree with the idea that we are born on probation, and that the blood and righteousness of Jesus bought us this probation, this second chance to get it right. But I'm pretty sure we both agree these truths do not mean we are born saved eternally in heaven.
|
|
|
Re: What does God require before we are baptized?
#17019
03/05/06 02:30 AM
03/05/06 02:30 AM
|
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
|
|
MM, it appears to me that you are very confused about what I've written. I don't know why. I think I've been clear. Nevertheless, that's the case.
I've not written we are born saved. You're making that up. I'm not going to defend something I'm not advocating in the first place.
If there's some specific thing I've actually written which you are having trouble understanding, please quote it, and I'll be happy to respond.
|
|
|
Re: What does God require before we are baptized?
#17020
03/05/06 12:32 PM
03/05/06 12:32 PM
|
|
|
quote:
To be honest, Tom, I find Jones tideous to read. I studied J&W's messages quite thoroughly several years ago and eventually came to the conclusion that Steps to Christ summarizes everything they ever wrote about righteousness by faith. There's nothing they said that she didn't say better. I realize she highly recommends them, but fortunately for me she didn't make it required reading.
Well said, MM, we agree 100%!
|
|
|
Re: What does God require before we are baptized?
#17021
03/05/06 05:08 PM
03/05/06 05:08 PM
|
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
|
|
I suppose some people find the Spirit of Prophecy tedious. So if that's a valid reason to disregard truth, they would be justified in seeting that aside? Certainly many find the Bible tedious. OK to set that aside too?
The question to ask is if the Lord has sent us truth, and if we have laid hold upon that truth. According to the Spirit of Prophecy, the Lord sent us truth through His servants Jones and Waggoner, truth she did not claim He sent to her. However, God has given us free will, and we are free to set aside this truth, or any other truth we wish; and even to fight against it.
|
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|
