Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,609
Members1,323
|
Most Online5,850 Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
7 registered members (Kevin H, Karen Y, Daryl, dedication, ProdigalOne, 2 invisible),
3,079
guests, and 13
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love?
[Re: kland]
#170355
12/03/14 04:11 PM
12/03/14 04:11 PM
|
SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
I highly doubt you will honor me by answering my questions. But I would love it if you would surprise me and answer them. I have answered this in detail, and you have presented nothing to counter my lengthy posting on this topic. God is not responsible for every rape, all the abuse, and every murder that you accuse Him of! You have also stated contrary comments. You say God is free to prevent evil, but then you say He is forced to allow it. If He is free to cause it, how is He FORCED to do it?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love?
[Re: kland]
#170361
12/03/14 04:38 PM
12/03/14 04:38 PM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
|
|
MM, do you believe Jesus is NOT free to 1-4?
|
|
|
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love?
[Re: kland]
#170363
12/03/14 08:10 PM
12/03/14 08:10 PM
|
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
APL I am not surprised you did not answer my question. I am disappointed.
|
|
|
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love?
[Re: kland]
#170379
12/04/14 02:34 PM
12/04/14 02:34 PM
|
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
You say God is free to prevent evil, but then you say He is forced to allow it. If He is free to cause it, how is He FORCED to do it? As you know, I have said all of the above. There are times when all of the above is true. Circumstances dictate what Jesus chooses to do - for reasons that make sense to Him. APL, the Bible and the SOP are too plain to misunderstand. There are times when Jesus destroys. There are times when He commands holy men and holy angels to destroy. And there are times when He permits evil men and evil angels to destroy (within the limits He sets and enforces).
|
|
|
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#170381
12/04/14 02:42 PM
12/04/14 02:42 PM
|
SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
APL I am not surprised you did not answer my question. I am disappointed. I'm disappointed you have not backup your thesis with scripture and/or the SOP. I'm disappointed you could not address the post where the answer are found.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#170387
12/04/14 05:16 PM
12/04/14 05:16 PM
|
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
M: You have already told us why you think Jesus chooses not to intervene and prevent evildoers from murdering innocent women and children. You believe it is because He respects their freedom 1) to choose and 2) to do. However, this implies Jesus chooses to violate their freedom to do when He intervenes and prevents it.
A: Jeremiah 9:23-24 Thus said the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24 But let him that glories glory in this, that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD which exercise loving kindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, said the LORD." But some say we can't understand!
M: Yes, you say you understand why there are times Jesus chooses not to intervene and prevent theft, rape, murder, etc. You call it the Third Category - "there are things that God wants to prevent, but because of freedom, He can't." "God has chosen to limit Himself in order to give us freedom."
You wrote - "We can never look into the eyes of someone who has been raped and tell them that God could have prevented this, but He choose to allowed this to happen for a good reason. The truth is that we have a God that wants to prevent these terrible things, but can not because He has given us freedom."
You wrote - "If we say that child molestation and rape happen because God choose not to intervene for some good reason, this is speaking evil and a lie and is sick and woe to those that say this. You can't say that God allowed these for a good reason. You can say that these happened because of freedom. We choose how to exercise that freedom, and that freedom can be used to hurt each other, and God hates it." You say Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evildoers to cause evil. But what does it imply when Jesus chooses to intervene and prevent evil? Does it mean He violates freewill? Please list examples of Jesus intervening and preventing evil.
A: I'm disappointed you could not address the post where the answer are found. Why do you think I haven't addressed your post? I just did (again). Is God controlling everything if He has given us freedom? If He has granted freedom, is there not then a chance that His will, will not happen? He can not control everything and preserve freedom. God has chosen to limit Himself in order to give us freedom.
So there are situations #1 where God can prevent something and He does, and #2 there are situations where God can prevent something but chooses not to for a good reason. But there is a third category according to the scriptures #3, there are things that God wants to prevent, but because of freedom, He can't.
We can never look into the eyes of someone who has been raped and tell them that God could have prevented this, but He choose to allowed this to happen for a good reason. The truth is that we have a God that wants to prevent these terrible things, but can not because He has given us freedom.
So, #3: there are many things happening on this planet that God does not want to happen. They do not happen because God has a reason for them, a purpose for them to happen. An enemy has done this!!!
Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
If we say that child molestation and rape happen because God choose not to intervene for some good reason, this is speaking evil and a lie and is sick and woe to those that say this. You can't say that God allowed these for a good reason. You can say that these happened because of freedom. We choose how to exercise that freedom, and that freedom can be used to hurt each other, and God hates it.
|
|
|
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love?
[Re: kland]
#170388
12/04/14 05:18 PM
12/04/14 05:18 PM
|
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
I'm disappointed you have not backup your thesis with scripture and/or the SOP. What do you think I have not shown from the Bible or the SOP?
|
|
|
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#170389
12/04/14 05:23 PM
12/04/14 05:23 PM
|
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
APL, do you believe Jesus is free to intervene and prevent evildoers from following through with their evil desires to steal, rape, murder, etc? For example:
1) Do you think Jesus is free to impress someone to show up at just the right time to prevent an evildoer from hurting an innocent woman or child?
2) Do you think Jesus is free to cause a gun to misfire when an evildoers pulls the trigger intending to murder an innocent woman or child?
3) Do you think Jesus is free to allow an evildoer to have a heart attack while attempting to hurt an innocent woman or child in order to prevent it?
4) Do you think Jesus is free to work to prevent evildoers from exceeding the limits of evil He is willing to permit?
|
|
|
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love?
[Re: kland]
#170390
12/04/14 05:24 PM
12/04/14 05:24 PM
|
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
What happens when a sinner's cup of iniquity if full? Example, Genesis 6:5 vs Genesis 15:16? What is the unpardonable sin? This condition the sinner no longer has any free will. He is a total slave to sin. 1) If they no longer possess the ability or freedom to choose are they culpable? 2) Can God hold them accountable for their evil deeds during the final judgment? 3) Do such people exist today? If so, to what purpose does Jesus continue to give them life and breath? 4) Is Jesus free to intervene and prevent them from hurting innocent women and children?
|
|
|
Re: If One kills those who disagree with Him, does that show love?
[Re: kland]
#170418
12/05/14 04:48 PM
12/05/14 04:48 PM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
|
|
MM, I'm disappointed you have not answered my question about how what you saying we are saying is any different than what you are saying.
MM, do you believe Jesus is NOT free to 1-4 of #170389?
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|