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Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Mountain Man] #173182
05/11/15 02:42 AM
05/11/15 02:42 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The passages I posted above describe what to do about it.
Originally Posted By: elle
however I don't appreciate the fact that most of these texts did not even address disciplinary measure relating to doctrines.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Mountain Man] #173190
05/11/15 03:16 PM
05/11/15 03:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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The church member does not agree 1) the seventh-day is the Sabbath, 2) Jesus will return to take us home, and 3) dead people remain in the grave until Jesus returns and resurrects them. The church member is very vocal about it. The passages I posted above describe what to do about it. Here they are again:

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
1 Corinthians
5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

2 Thessalonians
3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
3:15 Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother.

2 John
1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:
1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

2 Timothy
4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Jude
1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
1:8 Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
1:23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Titus
1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
1:12 One of themselves, [even] a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians [are] alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
1:15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

I have highlighted what should be done when church members speak and act contrary to sound doctrine. The Bible is clear about it.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #173193
05/11/15 03:57 PM
05/11/15 03:57 PM
APL  Offline
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And I ask again - a baptized member comes into your congregation who rejects one aspect of the 28FB, what are you going to do? Are you going to physically carry him out of your church so you do not have any "company with him"? WHAT would YOU do? How are you going to "execute judgment? How are you going to separate yourself? You have not answered this question. What is the PRACTICAL application of your quotations? Perhaps you really do not know?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #173194
05/11/15 04:08 PM
05/11/15 04:08 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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I wouldn't do anything. The responsibility rests with the church officers and the church board. The case I spelled out above is one that I am aware of. It ended in disfellowship. It was a long, drawn out process of meetings. He shared his reasons and actually expected the Church to agree and change her doctrines.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #173197
05/11/15 05:00 PM
05/11/15 05:00 PM
APL  Offline
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Your quotes say nothing about only church officers, did I miss something?

What would you do if a disfellowshipped person came to your congregation to worship? Came to your house? You met them on the street?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #173202
05/11/15 05:53 PM
05/11/15 05:53 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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True, Matthew 18 explain the process clearly - 1) one on one, 2) with one or two more, 3) tell the church.

Quote:
Matthew
18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican.
18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

We met a couple on a cruise two years ago. Turns out they are former SDA. They left off going to church and believing the 3AM some 60 years ago. Lovely couple. We enjoy getting together with them one or twice year. We usually share a meal. I feel no need to avoid them.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #173203
05/11/15 05:55 PM
05/11/15 05:55 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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In the case I mentioned above we did not feel inclined to hang out with them as if nothing was amiss.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #173213
05/12/15 03:11 PM
05/12/15 03:11 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Southwest USA
Deuteronomy
4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do [them], that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
4:3 Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you.
4:4 But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God [are] alive every one of you this day.
4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
4:6 Keep therefore and do [them]; for this [is] your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation [is] a wise and understanding people.
4:7 For what nation [is there so] great, who [hath] God [so] nigh unto them, as the LORD our God [is] in all [things that] we call upon him [for]?
4:8 And what nation [is there so] great, that hath statutes and judgments [so] righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
4:10 [Specially] the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and [that] they may teach their children.
4:11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
4:12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only [ye heard] a voice.
4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, [even] ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #173214
05/12/15 03:15 PM
05/12/15 03:15 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The Bible describes in no uncertain terms what happened when Israel failed to live in harmony with God's word and will. The Church is obligated to proclaim and protect the truth and to encourage her members to live accordingly. When members understand and refuse to live accordingly discipline is necessary.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #173226
05/12/15 09:58 PM
05/12/15 09:58 PM
APL  Offline
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So what is the necessary discipline? How do YOU do it? Just leave to others?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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