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Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Mountain Man] #175042
07/06/15 08:18 PM
07/06/15 08:18 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The FB are not hammers - they are eternal truths. Jesus raised up the SDA Church to practice and proclaim them. Yes, there are sincere believers in other churches who will be saved. However, that is not the same as saying Jesus raised them up to proclaim the 3AM, to prepare the world to accept or reject the truth as it is in Jesus. They will leave their churches and join the SDA Church when the call to come out of Babylon is sounded. They will gladly embrace the FB.
MM, you have gone off to absurdity. Your definition, or failure to define what the 28 +/- FB are is becoming a mockery. You say they are to be proclaimed but yet you say they aren't stated so they can be used at will against whomever when the need to be used against arises? How can they embrace them if they aren't even stated? How can they be judged by them if it is not for the ego of the one(s) supposing oneself in charge.

Or is this a case of "Jump", and the ones you say "embrace them" don't ask how high....

Sorry, you've made a mockery of them.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #175166
07/10/15 01:51 AM
07/10/15 01:51 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Kland, your choice of words (absurdity, mockery) is offensive.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #175180
07/10/15 02:37 PM
07/10/15 02:37 PM
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kland  Offline
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I think I added the word, absurdity, to my vocabulary from the various times you've used it.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #175181
07/10/15 02:41 PM
07/10/15 02:41 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Quote:
the 1901 General Conference Session, with input from Ellen White, autonomous unions were created,

“[transferring] authority from the General Conference leaders to local leaders, and departments were created that transferred authority over such ministries as Sabbath school, health, temperance, religious liberty, publishing, mission appointments and education from independent stockholders to church leaders, including members, at all levels.
[...]
The unions, on the other hand, were created to act as firewalls between the GC and the conferences, making “dictation” impossible because:
Each union had its own constitution and bylaws and was to be governed by its own constituency.
The officers of each union were to be elected by their own union constituency, and, therefore, could not be controlled, replaced or disciplined by the GC.

Different from what you've implied.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #175267
07/12/15 04:51 PM
07/12/15 04:51 PM
APL  Offline
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Thinking about the FB and the changes (not necessarily for the good) at the GC, the following from Waggoner comes to mind:

It is part of fallen human nature to make religion consist of forms and ceremonies [ordination?], formulas and doctrines. Sacerdotalism is not peculiar to certain denominations; it is inherent in fallen human nature and just to the extent that one loses sight of God, that formalism will manifest itself even in those who are most sincere. There are just as sincere souls among those whose religion consists of forms as among any people on earth. I have seen among Roman Catholics as much devout sincerity as among any people. Our danger lies in thinking that the truth consists of certain statements-of losing sight of the distinction between truth and the statement of truth. There is just as much difference between these two as there is between the law and the writing out of the law. The real law is living; the writing of it in the book is only a shadow. We are in danger of making a creed, and thinking that that is the truth. {September 30, 1902 EJW, ARSH 8.1}

No human words can express the truth of God. "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things that God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit." 1 Corinthians 2:9 The fullness of the truth of God cannot be stated in human language; otherwise it could be heard by the ear. It cannot be framed in human thought; otherwise it could enter into the heart of man. Truth can be revealed to man only by the gift of the Spirit of truth. {September 30, 1902 EJW, ARSH 8.2}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #175269
07/12/15 05:34 PM
07/12/15 05:34 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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I find it difficult to believe that truth is so mysterious that it cannot be expressed in words once the Holy Spirit reveals it unto us. The Bible contains the truths necessary to be set free.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Mountain Man] #175273
07/12/15 05:50 PM
07/12/15 05:50 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
I find it difficult to believe that truth is so mysterious that it cannot be expressed in words once the Holy Spirit reveals it unto us. The Bible contains the truths necessary to be set free.
Not without the Spirit it can't. If it is so plain as you claim, why so many denominations? Why Ellen White?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Mountain Man] #175278
07/13/15 01:52 AM
07/13/15 01:52 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
I find it difficult to believe that truth is so mysterious that it cannot be expressed in words once the Holy Spirit reveals it unto us. The Bible contains the truths necessary to be set free.

Truth in what context? In Science, especially Mathematics, it may be objective. Nobody would deny that you were speeding 20 over the limit if it was so recorded and shown on the meter. In the arts, however, truth is patently subjective. Were you cruising or were you going excessively fast? Compared to what and judging by whom?

The Bible is literature. The proliferation of denominational viewpoints, hence denominations, is therefore expected when it comes to matters it does not address directly. Is Jesus the Messiah? Of course! Mat. 16:16. Is there an investigative judgement of saints? NO. Why, because SDA merely interpreted certain statements to explain away their Great Disappointment.

Christian denominations should NOT base their peculiarity, and hold themselves out as the ONLY light upon a hill, on ideas not explicitly stated or self-evident from the text of the Bible. It is difficult to take anyone seriously, for example, who stridently claims that congregational worship on Saturdays or belief in a trinity of divinities is a determinant of one's salvation. One's creed should be simple: John 13:35, and allow for the proliferation and discussion of ideas without the threat of the stifling of conscience.

///

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #175297
07/13/15 03:46 PM
07/13/15 03:46 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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Genesis
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exodus
20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's.

John
14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke
10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Acts
16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #175298
07/13/15 03:49 PM
07/13/15 03:49 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
It's not rocket science. "But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy." James 3:17.

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