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Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet? [Re: Green Cochoa] #178790
12/19/15 11:53 AM
12/19/15 11:53 AM
Rick H  Offline

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Posts: 3,126
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When the Holy Spirit is poured out in the end times, should we accept or reject what it brings. Its as simple as that...

Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet? [Re: Green Cochoa] #178799
12/19/15 01:36 PM
12/19/15 01:36 PM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Simply put; Ellen White passes the test of a prophet!

Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet? [Re: Alchemy] #178802
12/20/15 01:39 PM
12/20/15 01:39 PM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Simply put; Ellen White passes the test of a prophet!

May I ask which test you are referring?


Blessings
Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet? [Re: Green Cochoa] #178813
12/22/15 08:38 PM
12/22/15 08:38 PM
K
kland  Offline
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May I ask which tests you think she doesn't pass?

Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet? [Re: kland] #178815
12/22/15 11:15 PM
12/22/15 11:15 PM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Quote:
Alchemy : Simply put; Ellen White passes the test of a prophet!

Elle : May I ask which test?

kland : May I ask which tests you think she doesn't pass?

Alchemy made the statement and he should be able to back it up. Maybe you want to qualify his statement for him?

BTW. I said I believe Ellen was sent by the Lord (thus a prophet). However, your definition of a prophet and how to test them could be different from what the Bible has defined.


Blessings
Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet? [Re: Green Cochoa] #178847
12/28/15 04:58 PM
12/28/15 04:58 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Nova Scotia, Canada
bump

Interested in further replies in relation to Elle's question and comment.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet? [Re: Green Cochoa] #178848
12/28/15 09:10 PM
12/28/15 09:10 PM
K
kland  Offline
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I believe the implication implied in the question and comment was that there were some tests of a prophet which she does not pass.

Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet? [Re: Elle] #178850
12/29/15 03:19 AM
12/29/15 03:19 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Simply put; Ellen White passes the test of a prophet!

May I ask which test you are referring?


1) Her doctrinal teachings are supported by the Bible. Namely, the Ten Commandments are still valid, the mortality of the soul, the sanctuary message, just to name a few.

2) The fruits of her life. (Kingdom of the Cults by Dr. Walter Martin)

3) Deuteronomy 13:1-5 and 18:22.

And any other tests you may think of.

Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet? [Re: Alchemy] #178860
12/30/15 05:47 PM
12/30/15 05:47 PM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Simply put; Ellen White passes the test of a prophet!

May I ask which test you are referring?


1) Her doctrinal teachings are supported by the Bible. Namely, the Ten Commandments are still valid, the mortality of the soul, the sanctuary message, just to name a few.

2) The fruits of her life. (Kingdom of the Cults by Dr. Walter Martin)

3) Deuteronomy 13:1-5 and 18:22.

And any other tests you may think of.

I appreciate the answer. In respond to your 3 points in respective order :

1)I agree that some of Ellen comments is point on scriptures however some other are not. As we have seen in some discussion here that even some writings conflicts with earlier writings. We have also seen here too many times in discussions that both sides of an argument are using EGW to support their position.

There's many reason for these.

One major one that I now understand is that we do not understand what is a prophet. Prophets are people just like us that needs to grow into their calling. Meaning that at time prophets misunderstand the word given to them. For the norm, interpretation is absent from the prophetic word given; so the interpretation of the word is a mystery until the Lord provides the interpretation which often is later to the generation that the prophesy applies to.

Also like any of us, they have their own misconception of who is the Lord. They do not see the Lord face to face yet or as He is yet. Prophetic words needs to be refined or defined by the Lord who will use other members of His body and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Like Abraham(see link), young prophets in training often mis-understood the word given to them.

Interpretation of prophecies are often given and reserve for later generation that it applies to. So for most prophets in training, the first lesson to understand is they may not get the interpretation of the prophetic word and to shut their mouth and not treat their speculative interpretation as truth.

Another major problem I see is to know which writings came from EGW's actual pen from those that are not. As I have expressed in "Should we quote EGW? --The Lord Canonized OT & NT -- shouldn't EGW's writings also? " discussion.... until this canonizing is done, I think no one is in position to quote any of EGW writings as we do not know if it came from her pen at all, or from her large team, or from an extraction from another writer's book.

2)I do agree that Ellen life was a life of dedication. However I don't believe character or "the fruit of her life" is a Biblical test of a prophet. Mat 7 doesn't say that. I was trying to find the post where we had studied this in the past and I haven't still found it. When I'll find it, I'll get back to this point.


3)We have already discussed Deut 13 in "Should we quote EGW?. I think you need to re-read Deut 13. As I have said in that discussion, Deut 13 is about the Lord sending a prophet to test us(see link) if we will just take whatever the prophet says without testing it. Even those that comes to us with “[i]sign and wonder come to pass”(Deut 13:2), all their words still needs to be tested also. Fulfilled sign and wonder are not a test of a true prophet either according to Deut 13:2. Basically my understanding is no one should assume that at anytime that everything a certain person says is the word of God. Even Paul, whose testimony, conversion, work, miracles … were all quite amazing --- despite all his words needed to be tested by whom the Bereans were praised for doing so. In our Church, we should be praising anyone who test any of EGW’s writings or Church interpretations. But that is not the case, persecution is more the norm.

So basically the Lord tells US in Deut 13 to test all things. The “US” is the individuals’ responsibility or as Ellen and James rightly puts it “our Christian’s duty”. Here's an example of it -- where yourself, kland and Prodigalone have failed the Deut 13 test in believing in a "shaking out" theory that was not shown in the past by the Lord.

Am I saying that Ellen failed the Deut 13 test? No not at all. The Lord is not testing the prophet He has sent, but He is testing US if we are going to buy whatever they say without testing them. Verse 3 says “For the Lord your God proveth YOU” (not the prophet He has sent for the purpose to prove YOU).


Blessings
Re: Why or why not accept Mrs. White as a prophet? [Re: Elle] #178864
01/01/16 02:38 AM
01/01/16 02:38 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Simply put; Ellen White passes the test of a prophet!

May I ask which test you are referring?


1) Her doctrinal teachings are supported by the Bible. Namely, the Ten Commandments are still valid, the mortality of the soul, the sanctuary message, just to name a few.

2) The fruits of her life. (Kingdom of the Cults by Dr. Walter Martin)

3) Deuteronomy 13:1-5 and 18:22.

And any other tests you may think of.

I appreciate the answer. In respond to your 3 points in respective order :

1)I agree that some of Ellen comments is point on scriptures however some other are not. As we have seen in some discussion here that even some writings conflicts with earlier writings. We have also seen here too many times in discussions that both sides of an argument are using EGW to support their position.

There's many reason for these.

One major one that I now understand is that we do not understand what is a prophet. Prophets are people just like us that needs to grow into their calling. Meaning that at time prophets misunderstand the word given to them. For the norm, interpretation is absent from the prophetic word given; so the interpretation of the word is a mystery until the Lord provides the interpretation which often is later to the generation that the prophesy applies to.

Also like any of us, they have their own misconception of who is the Lord. They do not see the Lord face to face yet or as He is yet. Prophetic words needs to be refined or defined by the Lord who will use other members of His body and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Like Abraham(see link), young prophets in training often mis-understood the word given to them.

Interpretation of prophecies are often given and reserve for later generation that it applies to. So for most prophets in training, the first lesson to understand is they may not get the interpretation of the prophetic word and to shut their mouth and not treat their speculative interpretation as truth.

Another major problem I see is to know which writings came from EGW's actual pen from those that are not. As I have expressed in "Should we quote EGW? --The Lord Canonized OT & NT -- shouldn't EGW's writings also? " discussion.... until this canonizing is done, I think no one is in position to quote any of EGW writings as we do not know if it came from her pen at all, or from her large team, or from an extraction from another writer's book.

2)I do agree that Ellen life was a life of dedication. However I don't believe character or "the fruit of her life" is a Biblical test of a prophet. Mat 7 doesn't say that. I was trying to find the post where we had studied this in the past and I haven't still found it. When I'll find it, I'll get back to this point.


3)We have already discussed Deut 13 in "Should we quote EGW?. I think you need to re-read Deut 13. As I have said in that discussion, Deut 13 is about the Lord sending a prophet to test us(see link) if we will just take whatever the prophet says without testing it. Even those that comes to us with “[i]sign and wonder come to pass”(Deut 13:2), all their words still needs to be tested also. Fulfilled sign and wonder are not a test of a true prophet either according to Deut 13:2. Basically my understanding is no one should assume that at anytime that everything a certain person says is the word of God. Even Paul, whose testimony, conversion, work, miracles … were all quite amazing --- despite all his words needed to be tested by whom the Bereans were praised for doing so. In our Church, we should be praising anyone who test any of EGW’s writings or Church interpretations. But that is not the case, persecution is more the norm.

So basically the Lord tells US in Deut 13 to test all things. The “US” is the individuals’ responsibility or as Ellen and James rightly puts it “our Christian’s duty”. Here's an example of it -- where yourself, kland and Prodigalone have failed the Deut 13 test in believing in a "shaking out" theory that was not shown in the past by the Lord.

Am I saying that Ellen failed the Deut 13 test? No not at all. The Lord is not testing the prophet He has sent, but He is testing US if we are going to buy whatever they say without testing them. Verse 3 says “For the Lord your God proveth YOU” (not the prophet He has sent for the purpose to prove YOU).


Excellent post Elle.

Yet, there are some issues I have with it.

1) I agree that truth is progressive as well as our understanding of truth. Yet, I am not aware of any instance where Ellen White contradicted herself or got it wrong. I would need to see these examples you said existed.

2) Yes. Fruits are a test of a prophet and the Bible clearly states this in Matthew 7:15-20. But, as far as what writings are from Sister White's pen or not ids an issue that has arisen. People make the same claims about the Bible as well! Until I am shown that certain writings claimed to be from Ellen White are not, I will continue to accept them. Implied doubt is not evidence of anything.

3) I completely agree that Deuteronomy 13:1-5 is testing the people. I completely agree that we all need to know how to test a prophet for signs and wonders are not the test. The false prophet in Revelation will have signs and miracles come to pass. This is what I was addressing about Deuteronomy 18:22. A sign coming to pass or not is not the test, but, the message and fruits of the prophet.

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