ALL charismatic leaders throughout history, from Moses to Donald Trump, have those who follow them based on feeling. So, while I'm glad that works for you, it doesn't work for me. White herself states that feelings are not to be trusted. Feelings of "Joy, peace, hope, love" can also be induced chemically, such as with alcohol or Ecstasy.

Nadi, good point. Very true. However, when faith and belief produce the fruit of the Spirit it is hard to deny the existence of God. If believing the word of God, if living in harmony with the word of God left me feeling rotten and miserable I wouldn't long delay my departure.

Think back to Christ's day.

John the Baptist was raised up by God to herald Christ's first coming, we know that from the NT. But if you were standing before the Sanhedrin back then, could you clearly establish his authenticity from the scriptures they then had, Something along the lines of "And then when the Messiah is about to appear, I shall raise up a prophet, and he shall be called John the Baptist?

Or what about Christ Himself?
How is it that most of the Jewish nation could not see a clearly established authenticity from scripture of Christ the Messiah? Those spiritual leaders memorized the scripture, why didn't they see it? Yes, there are prophecies all through the OT, but it's not a clearly spelled out picture, just lots of bits and pieces mixing 1st and 2nd coming in with local prophecies. If you didn't have the new testament verification -- could you, back around 30 A.D. have given a clear presentation to the Sanhedrin?

What it comes down to -- is a person studies, prays for the Holy Spirit to lead, studies some more, and is convicted --

We can show points of our journey, but if the other person's mind is already tuned to "negative" on the subject ...

well it's actually very rare that debaters on these forums change each other's minds.

I have personally changed the minds of lots of folks using a single passage of scripture. According to John 14:6, Jesus said to [His disciples], "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

And we KNOW Jesus of Nazareth as Christ and Saviour not from Ellen White but from the eyewitness testimonies of the disciples through the Gospels. And having known Him, we come into a saving relationship with God, Our Father in heaven; and, being so born again, we inherit the promise of eternal life.

There is ABSOLUTELY no need for Ellen White.

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That argument boils down to:
If A = X
And B = X
Therefore C = X

So you can see right off that I am going to reject that.



Not everyone feels the driving need to change other people's mind. For me, I simply want to know WHAT the other poster's position is; what it's strengths and weakness are; how it is supported. I find this difficult to do when posts consist of little more than name-calling, accusations of closed-mindedness, eisegesis and logical fallacies.

Well I will agree with that right off.

I am convinced Jesus raised up Ellen White to help us better understand the Bible in the same way He raised up Paul to help us better understand the Bible. I strong suspect I wouldn't be a Christian today if I hadn't read the Conflict of the Ages series (in my opinion the best Bible study ever written). I also realize Ellen White herself stated there would have been no reason for the SOP if God's people had studied the Bible thoroughly with prayer and fasting. I am thankful Jesus saw fit to mercifully overlook their shortcomings and gift Ellen White with the spirit of prophecy.

Then I am VERY happy that I read the Bible for myself, that I believed the eyewitness testimony of the disciples and came into a saving relationship with God through Jesus Christ, the ONE AND ONLY mediator.

I can read the Gospel according to Mark or John in an hour or two and need not be bogged down with endless words on endless pages with which men have sought to supplant the simple Truth of the Holy Scriptures.

Why do I need to read a book of mormon or a watchtower paper or what some call a sop? For some say that Jesus said, "By this all will know that ye are My disciples, if ye diligently harken unto these things." John 13:35

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If Jesus were to raise up another prophet to share even more details and inspired insights regarding the life and times of Jesus I would devour it eagerly.

How different are you from Matt Goodro? (5:35 onwards)



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