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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: kland] #178578
12/01/15 04:33 AM
12/01/15 04:33 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 490
Michigan, US
Dear Kland,

'Somebody' is speaking like a dragon for sure. We are told that the second beast in the Rev. Chap. 13, "he spake as a dragon" (verse 11).

"Out of the mouth of" 1) dragon, 2) beast, and 3) false prophet mean that they use their mouth to deceive the whole world and they also speak as a dragon for they are the spirits of devils. Thus we should not interpret the dragon of the three unclean spirits as the Satan or the Devil. Rather, it represent pagan religions, primarily the orient of Buddhists, which worship dragon of the evil spirits.

These three identity is the physical entities of the spirits of the devils. They are involved actively to unite the whole world in the battle of Armageddon. They have "a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon" (Rev. 9:11). This angel is the Dragon, "the angel of the bottomless pit".

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #178581
12/01/15 12:05 PM
12/01/15 12:05 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 490
Michigan, US
Originally Posted By: Karen Y



These three identity is the physical entities of the spirits of the devils. They are involved actively to unite the whole world in the battle of Armageddon. They have "a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon" (Rev. 9:11). This angel is the Dragon, "the angel of the bottomless pit".


"The angel of the bottomless pit" is the great Dragon, the Satan.

Quote:
Rev. 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."


The dragon of the Rev. 16:13 represent paganism.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #178582
12/01/15 12:39 PM
12/01/15 12:39 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 490
Michigan, US
A shadow of the sixth plague is already contemporary. Ecumenical movement itself is the plague and the world already has joined the movement.

Quote:
Rev. 16:13,14 "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, WHICH GO FORTH UNTO THE KINGS OF THE EARTH AND OF THE WHOLE WORLD, TO GATHER THEM to the battle of that great day of God Almighty". (emphasis added by this writer)


Quote:
"We are living in the closing scenes of this earth's history. Prophecy is fast fulfilling. The hours of probation are fast passing. We have no time - not a moment - to lose. Let us not be found sleeping on guard. Let no one say in his heart or by his works: "My lord delayeth his coming." Let the message of Christ's soon return sound forth in earnest words of warning. Let us persuade men and women everywhere to repent and flee from the wrath to come..." Maranatha pg. 311.2


The four angels holding the four corners of the earth will be loosed at a command of God from the throne at a point of time, then the probation will be over.

Quote:
Rev. 9:13 "...I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God."

This is the voice of God that coming out from the temple where the four horns exist, which depict mercy of God. At the command of God, the four angels will let go of the hold. Then there would be no more mercy of God.

Quote:
Rev. 9:15 "And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men."


When the earth is depopulated by one third in the sixth trumpet, this has to be the seven last plagues. Thus verse 20 says, "...the rest of the men which were not killed by THESE PLAGUES..." (emphasis added by this writer)

So the seven trumpets clearly indicate that those are the warnings of the coming seven last plagues.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #178621
12/03/15 01:59 PM
12/03/15 01:59 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 490
Michigan, US

The Seven Trumpets are written judgment that foretells the coming seven last plagues. God's people would not want to wait until Jesus cast the ashes of the golden censor upon the earth, which means the close of the probation (Rev. 8:2-4). The image of the Seven Trumpet appears as though the events would happen after Jesus finishes the intercessory work in the heavenly sanctuary but the plan of God is that His people would discern the written judgment of the seven trumpets and participate to fore-warn the world.

Quote:
Sound an alarm throughout the length and breadth of the earth. Tell the people that the day of the Lord is near and hasteth greatly. Let none be left unwarned. - Mar 29.4

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #178698
12/10/15 03:50 AM
12/10/15 03:50 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 490
Michigan, US
A single angel has such a power to destroy as the OT has told us. All the first-born Egyptians were destroyed by one angel and likewise when David offended against God by numbering the people, one angel caused the destruction.

When the command comes out from the temple in heaven to loose the four angels that are bound, the holy angels of 200 millions will move at His command at a point of the time to slay 1/3 of mankind, which is presently more than 2 billions of population of the earth.

Quote:
"As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose". GC 614.1


The holy angels will stop the hold and the things of the earth "will be let loose". Verse 19 says that "For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt".
This destroying power is exercised by evil angels on the earth when the four corners of the earth are not on hold in check by the holy angels.

Quote:
"The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere." GC 614.2


The sixth trumpet reveals about the "Hurt" or "Harm" of mankind, which denoted by trees and green grass in Rev. 7:3 and Rev. 9:4. This means that the probation will be closed imminently and the destroying angels will exercise their power to destroy 1/3 of mankind.

This kind of destruction has not happened "upon the inhabiters of the earth" (Rev. 8:13) yet, therefore the sixth trumpet is portraying one of the coming seven last plagues. Apparently "the rest of men which were not killed by these PLAGUES yet repented not of the works of their hands" (Rev. 9:20).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #178713
12/11/15 04:55 PM
12/11/15 04:55 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
Originally Posted By: Karen Y
Dear Kland,

'Somebody' is speaking like a dragon for sure. We are told that the second beast in the Rev. Chap. 13, "he spake as a dragon" (verse 11).

"Out of the mouth of" 1) dragon, 2) beast, and 3) false prophet mean that they use their mouth to deceive the whole world and they also speak as a dragon for they are the spirits of devils. Thus we should not interpret the dragon of the three unclean spirits as the Satan or the Devil. Rather, it represent pagan religions, primarily the orient of Buddhists, which worship dragon of the evil spirits.

These three identity is the physical entities of the spirits of the devils. They are involved actively to unite the whole world in the battle of Armageddon. They have "a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon" (Rev. 9:11). This angel is the Dragon, "the angel of the bottomless pit".
"This angel is the Dragon, "the angel of the bottomless pit"" from which the three come out of its mouth.

I'm trying to say, a box cannot contain itself.

I don't feel you really addressed my question. But I cannot figure out how to ask it any differently. I guess it's not really going to make any difference to you, though.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: kland] #178763
12/17/15 04:15 PM
12/17/15 04:15 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 490
Michigan, US
I am trying to say that the dragon of the three unclean spirits is different than the dragon of "the angel of the bottomless pit". We have to read in context first.

How does the dragon of the spirit of the evil (verse 13) "working miracle" directly to the inhabiters of the earth as the beast and the false prophet if he is the Devil and Satan himself?

Quote:
Rev. 20:20 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that WROUGHT MIRACLES before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. ..." emphasis added by me


The threefold union of the evil spirits are working together to gather the "whole world" to make spiritual Babylon to enforce the mark of the beast. Thus my understanding of the dragon in Chap. 16:13 is pagan religion, mostly Buddhist of orient.

The dragon of "the angel of the bottomless pit", which is the Devil and Satan, gave the dragon (pagan religion), the beast (Catholic) and the false prophet (protestant) a mouth to speak to deceived the whole world.

God's prophets speak His Word, but the three evil spirits speak the words of Satan to deceive the world. Satan tries to counterfeit God (Isa. 14) in every way he can.

Satan gave his "power, and his seat, and great authority" (Rev. 13:2) to his agents. He works through his alliances and associates of the evil to establish the kingdom of the Babylon. At the time of their collapse, they will be "divided into three parts; and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God..." (Rev. 16:19).

The Babylon is fallen in the work of these three unclean spirits; (Rev. 18:2)

1).the paganism - "the habitation of devils (they have all kinds of evil spirits),
2). the beast - "the hold of every foul spirit" (Catholic worship dead people or saints),
3). the false prophets - "a cage of every unclean and hateful bird" (their false teachings are like hateful birds making noises).

Thus the three unclean spirits get their powers from Satan to establish the global kingdom of Babylon and to enforce the mark of the beast.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #178781
12/18/15 05:33 PM
12/18/15 05:33 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
Originally Posted By: Karen Y
I am trying to say that the dragon of the three unclean spirits is different than the dragon of "the angel of the bottomless pit". We have to read in context first.

How does the dragon of the spirit of the evil (verse 13) "working miracle" directly to the inhabiters of the earth as the beast and the false prophet if he is the Devil and Satan himself?
But Karen, it does not say "the dragon of the three unclean spirits". The three unclean spirits come out of three things: come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

The three spirits come out of mouths of three things. 3 spirits out of 3. Only one of the three with a mouth is the dragon. The spirit which comes out of his mouth is not a dragon, but the spirit out of his mouth. There are 2 other spirits out of two other mouths which are not the mouth of the dragon.

Why can it not be said that paganism comes out of the mouth of satan? Is there any reason to object to that?

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: kland] #178814
12/22/15 10:56 PM
12/22/15 10:56 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 490
Michigan, US
Kland, It is clear that your understanding and my understanding are different. I like to read it in context about the dragon of the Chap. 16. If you insist otherwise, that is your approach to interpret, which I would not insist for you to look at it only in my view. Whomever may have all their freedom.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #178822
12/25/15 05:13 PM
12/25/15 05:13 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
I'm questioning the logic of your view of the sentence. Are you ok with saying the dragon comes out of the mouth of the dragon?

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