Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,630
Members1,323
|
Most Online5,850 Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
Re: More vegans in the news . . .
[Re: APL]
#181050
07/18/16 01:34 AM
07/18/16 01:34 AM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
Again, your proof-text fails you. Your "quote" comes from the Kress collection. I guess that must be the same principle you use to reject the truths of Biblical passages like 1 Timothy 3, is that right? "Well that came from a personal letter to Timothy. . . ." Thou seemeth not to be a true Berean. For the Bereans among us, here are some additional thoughts to ponder on the topic in support of what has already been said. 324. I have something to say in reference to extreme views of health reform. Health reform becomes health deform, a health destroyer, when it is carried to extremes. You will not be successful in sanitariums, where the sick are treated, if you prescribe for the patients the same diet you have prescribed for yourself and your wife. I assure you that your ideas in regard to diet for the sick are not advisable. The change is too great. While I would discard flesh meat as injurious, something less objectionable may be used, and this is found in eggs. Do not remove milk from the table or forbid its being used in the cooking of food. The milk used should be procured from healthy cows, and should be sterilized. {CD 202.4} The context of the above quote demonstrates that Ellen White's own teaching regarding "extremes" is within the context of giving up milk and eggs, i.e. it is "extremist" to give them up. She uses that word as well. . . Do not go to extremes in regard to the health reform. Some of our people are very careless in regard to health reform. But because some are far behind, you must not, in order to be an example to them, be an extremist. You must not deprive yourself of that class of food which makes good blood. Your devotion to true principles is leading you to submit yourself to a diet which is giving you an experience that will not recommend health reform. This is your danger. When you see that you are becoming weak physically, it is essential for you to make changes, and at once. Put into your diet something you have left out. It is your duty to do this. Get eggs of healthy fowls. Use these eggs cooked or raw. Drop them uncooked into the best unfermented wine you can find. This will supply that which is necessary to your system. Do not for a moment suppose that it will not be right to do this. . . . {CD 204.1} Of course, Mrs. White would not have told only one person not to go to extremes, would she? Can a true Berean say "only Dr. Kress should not go to extremes and be an extremist. . .the rest of us should be extremists"? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: More vegans in the news . . .
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#181051
07/18/16 01:45 AM
07/18/16 01:45 AM
|
SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
I guess that must be the same principle you use to reject the truths of Biblical passages like 1 Timothy 3, is that right? "Well that came from a personal letter to Timothy. . . ."
Thou seemeth not to be a true Berean. Did you read the WHOLE letter? Did you? Every word and all that was said? NO. You want to know how I know? Because of this statement: For the Bereans among us, here are some additional thoughts to ponder on the topic in support of what has already been said. You then quote {CD 202.4} and {CD 204.1}. IF, IF, you were a berean as you claimed, this is not additional information. This is from the SAME Kress letter. The SAME letter! Shall we also recommend blood transfusions? Now who has EGG on their face?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: More vegans in the news . . .
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#181052
07/18/16 01:56 AM
07/18/16 01:56 AM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
APL,
Yes, I knew that those statements I quoted next came from the same letter. I also knew that they are quoted in other places, including Counsels on Diet and Foods, and Medical Ministry. Will you now reject those as well?
You may be on course toward rejection of the light God gave us through Mrs. White.
I hope you consider well these things. Of course, an extremist, by definition, lacks balance, and may never be able to read the literature in its proper light.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: More vegans in the news . . .
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#181054
07/18/16 03:51 AM
07/18/16 03:51 AM
|
SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
green - I hope you are not bearing false witness because I don't believe you knew the the CD quotes was from the same letter. You bring a quote from a letter, then bring what you call additional quotes, but they are from the same letter. This is evidence you don't know your source. Why did you not quote the original source instead of a compilation which was all from the same letter as your original quotation thinking is was new information? As for extreme, I think I know who is extreme. The advice in the Kress letter is good where it should be applied. The Lord has given us ample evidence that we no longer need to rely on foods of animal sources, and this has been true for quite sometime.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: More vegans in the news . . .
[Re: APL]
#181056
07/18/16 04:43 AM
07/18/16 04:43 AM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
green - I hope you are not bearing false witness because I don't believe you knew the the CD quotes was from the same letter. You bring a quote from a letter, then bring what you call additional quotes, but they are from the same letter. This is evidence you don't know your source. Why did you not quote the original source instead of a compilation which was all from the same letter as your original quotation thinking is was new information? As for extreme, I think I know who is extreme. The advice in the Kress letter is good where it should be applied. The Lord has given us ample evidence that we no longer need to rely on foods of animal sources, and this has been true for quite sometime. APL, I am far more versed in Ellen White than you might suppose. I certainly DID know, and did not bear false witness. However, I also knew that you wished to portray the quote as a little-known statement in someone's personal collection, and that if I used the portions quoted in a well-known book, it would undermine your ability to gainsay them. I, therefore, selected the additional information from Counsels on Diet and Foods. Contrary to what you are saying, however, the Lord has given us ample evidence that eggs and/or milk are still quite necessary. Ellen White says this, and perhaps you were simply unaware of the fact? (I don't think you should be, though, as I have understood that you should also be quite versed in her writings.) Concerning flesh meat, we should educate the people to let it alone. Its use is contrary to the best development of the physical, mental, and moral powers. And we should bear a clear testimony against the use of tea and coffee. It is also well to discard rich desserts. Milk, eggs, and butter should not be classed with flesh meat. In some cases the use of eggs is beneficial. The time has not come to say that the use of milk and eggs should be wholly discarded. There are poor families whose diet consists largely of bread and milk. They have little fruit and cannot afford to purchase the nut foods. In teaching health reform, as in all other gospel work, we are to meet the people where they are. Until we can teach them how to prepare health reform foods that are palatable, nourishing, and yet inexpensive, we are not at liberty to present the most advanced propositions regarding health reform diet. {7T 134.6}
Concerning flesh meat we can all say, Let it alone. And all should bear a clear testimony against tea and coffee, never using them. They are narcotics, and are injurious to the brain and they clog the whole human machinery. It is also well to discard desserts. But we have not come to the time when I can say that the use of milk and eggs should be wholly discontinued. Milk and eggs should not be classed with flesh meat. In some ailments the use of eggs is necessary.--Letter 177, 1901, p. 8. (To "The Brethren and Sisters that Compose the Iowa Conference," May 7, 1901.) {8MR 384.3}
The food provided should be scrupulously simple. Pastry and other desserts make havoc in the stomach, and these might better be discarded. The food should be palatable and nutritious, and we do not recommend the disuse of salt or milk.--Letter 145, 1901, p. 3. (To A. T. Jones, October 19, 1901.)
Released June 21, 1978. {8MR 384.4}
Eggs are not meat, according to Ellen White. This fact never changed. Consider her own diet in her last year of life, if you will. APL, you should know that when I say I have read every statement on milk and eggs from Mrs. White, I mean it. I have not only done so, I have from them prepared presentations that I have presented to churches on the topic. You are not discussing this with an uninformed individual. Mrs. White was balanced. She would have called you an extremist. This is all I can write today, for the mail must go soon. But I wish to say that when the time comes that it is no longer safe to use milk, cream, butter, and eggs, God will reveal this. No extremes in health reform are to be advocated. The question of using milk and butter and eggs will work out its own problem. At present we have no burden on this line. Let your moderation be known unto all men.--Letter 37, 1901, pp. 1-13. (To Dr. and Mrs. Kress, May 29, 1901.)
White Estate Washington, D. C. Dec. 2, 1982 {12MR 178.1}
Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: More vegans in the news . . .
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#181058
07/18/16 05:06 AM
07/18/16 05:06 AM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
In 1883, Mrs. White published the following: To make rolls, use soft water and milk, or a little cream; make a stiff dough, and knead it as for crackers. Bake on the grate of the oven. These are sweet and delicious. They require thorough mastication, which is a benefit both to the teeth and the stomach. They make good blood, and impart strength. With such bread, and the abundant fruits, vegetables, and grains with which our country abounds, no greater luxuries should be desired. {RH, May 8, 1883 par. 6} The following statement was published in 1890. Fruits, grains, and vegetables, prepared in a simple way, free from spice and grease of all kinds, make, with milk or cream, the most healthful diet. They impart nourishment to the body, and give a power of endurance and a vigor of intellect that are not produced by a stimulating diet. {CTBH 47.1} In 1897-1898 it was adjusted slightly and republished as: Fruits, grains, and vegetables, prepared in a simple way, free from spice and grease of all kinds, make, with milk and cream, the most healthful diet. They impart nourishment to the body, and give a power of endurance and vigor of intellect that are not produced by a stimulating diet.--C. T., p. 47. {HL 78.6} [Underlining added to show a significant change.] Clearly, Mrs. White viewed milk and cream as part of a healthful diet. This did not change. What is changing is the health of animals. Many people today can still obtain milk and eggs from healthy animals. America may be less privileged in that area than some countries. Mrs. White would likely have advocated in our day against eating raw cabbage, unless it had come from a known sanitary source. She might have recommended blanching all cabbage or Brussels sprouts to reduce the risk of e coli. Most bacterial outbreaks in the news of late have been with our vegetables. Should we give up vegetables because "it is clearly no longer safe and God is telling us to do so"? I think not. Mrs. White makes clear that we are to give up milk and eggs when God tells us to. Dr. Kress ate eggs to his dying day. They are what gave him his longevity, and were a prescription from God. God never told him to give them up. That being the case, why did Mrs. White write to him that when it is time to give them up, God Himself would reveal it? Did she not rather write this for our benefit?Be a Berean. He that hath an ear, let him hear. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: More vegans in the news . . .
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#181059
07/18/16 05:07 AM
07/18/16 05:07 AM
|
SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
APL, you should know that when I say I have read every statement on milk and eggs from Mrs. White, I mean it That is not my point! My point is to read every statement in the context of the original document. As you said, Quote: " I, therefore, selected the additional information from Counsels on Diet and Foods." The "additional" information was from the same original document which you did not quote, as if this was actually "additional" information. It was not. It was the same document. I do like the selection of quotes you posted this time, "in some cases". You make it out to be all EXCEPT "some cases". I wonder, have you ever treated anyone with heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, auto-immune disease?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: More vegans in the news . . .
[Re: APL]
#181060
07/18/16 05:25 AM
07/18/16 05:25 AM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
|
|
APL, you should know that when I say I have read every statement on milk and eggs from Mrs. White, I mean it That is not my point! My point is to read every statement in the context of the original document. As you said, Quote: " I, therefore, selected the additional information from Counsels on Diet and Foods." The "additional" information was from the same original document which you did not quote, as if this was actually "additional" information. It was not. It was the same document. I do like the selection of quotes you posted this time, "in some cases". You make it out to be all EXCEPT "some cases". I wonder, have you ever treated anyone with heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, auto-immune disease? APL, Your grasping at straws weakens your position. Any reader here will see through your attempted argument as a futile excuse to discredit the idea you disdain. The fact is, your argument has no merit. If I read the first chapter of "Steps to Christ," can I assume there is no "additional information" in the rest of the book? It comes from the "same source," does it not? Or, if you should say each chapter is separate, what about reading just the first paragraph of each? If you write me a letter, should I read only the first idea, sentence, paragraph, or page of it as there will be no "additional information" after that? If you wish to be a Berean: Instead of your false accusations, find some statements from the Bible or Ellen White to support your views. If you cannot find them, reconsider your views. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
|
|
|
Re: More vegans in the news . . .
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#181062
07/18/16 05:36 AM
07/18/16 05:36 AM
|
SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
|
|
Actually, I think I caught you off guard and you are trying desperately to save face. The "same source" example is not a book, but a single letter. You produced a quote, which I challenged to you read in context of the whole letter, then you brought forward "additional" information but was in fact the same single letter, and this after being challenged to read the whole letter.
As for the Bible and Ellen White, I have no faith in your opinions, from repeated twisting of the statements to mean the exact opposite. Ex: "God destroys no man", but green says God destroys be active execution. Or, God is not the destroy, He is a destroyer. Or, "likeness of sinful flesh" to green means "sinless flesh". Or, nah, I'll stop.
Are you teaching everyone, and EGW instructs, to cook without milk and eggs? If not, why not? Actually, forget that question, I have no more questions for you.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
|
|
|
Re: More vegans in the news . . .
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#181070
07/19/16 09:43 PM
07/19/16 09:43 PM
|
SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,429
Midland
|
|
For vitamin B12, those who take supplements should know, however, that by far the most common source on the market, cyanocobalamin, which is also the cheapest, is virtually unusable by the body. Precious little uptake of B12 occurs with it, and a B12 deficiency can still develop when taking this as one's source. Hydroxocobalamin is a slightly better form, and more expensive, but a better one by far, and most expensive of the three as well, is methylcobalamin. Where I am located, it is unavailable. We have only cyanocobalamin here. Perhaps Mrs. White refers to this country as among those "poor" which she allows greater latitude in terms of dietary health reform. Of course, anyone can still, given a rural setting, obtain eggs from healthy hens, simply by raising a few of their own.
Why you're making a connection of B12 and eggs can only be assumed from the fallacy you used in the past. So, according to similar Green-logic, we can get all the fiber we need from eating one egg a day! In fact all vitamins, minerals, anything we need for healthy bodies are received by eating one egg a day. Ellen White said so (By twisting, implying, and conjecturing). Fabulous. I do so like green eggs and ham! Thank you! Thank you, Sam-I-am
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|