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Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: dedication] #184841
08/07/17 08:16 PM
08/07/17 08:16 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: dedication
Yes, truth matters.
Yes, there is only ONE TRUTH.
Yes, Jesus, as the Son of God taught pure truth, unmixed with error.

However, the history of Christianity is terribly marred by people who THINK they have that one truth and went about banning, punishing, exiling, or killing those who believed differently.



And who here has suggested doing that?

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: ] #184842
08/07/17 08:18 PM
08/07/17 08:18 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Posts: 6,425
Midland
Originally Posted By: Gary K
The "scientific method" does not work when studying about God, for the "scientific method" is purely human reasoning. And purely human reasoning can never come to the truth about God, for it cannot rise above the level of humanity. It acknowledges nothing greater than itself. Science cannot prove God exists. It requires faith to find God and to accept Him. And without faith it is impossible to please God. To go down the rabbit hole of science is to go down the same rabbit holes the Greeks, Jews, French, and Protestants have gone down. It is the rabbit hole of believing in human ability over and above the revelation that comes from God.
You are right in a sense. But I wasn't using it in the sense of studying about God. I was using it in a sense of approach. Do you believe we should just believe what someone else says about someone else wrote without actually reading what that person they were writing about actually wrote? That is the sense of what I'm saying of using the principles of the scientific method. Again, repeating, that was my objection.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: ] #184844
08/07/17 08:56 PM
08/07/17 08:56 PM
dedication  Online Content
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,433
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Originally Posted By: dedication
Yes, truth matters.
Yes, there is only ONE TRUTH.
Yes, Jesus, as the Son of God taught pure truth, unmixed with error.

However, the history of Christianity is terribly marred by people who THINK they have that one truth and went about banning, punishing, exiling, or killing those who believed differently.



And who here has suggested doing that?


The same spirit can be manifested in other ways.
How many times does a conversation in which two can't agree on what they see as truth, end in mud slinging?

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: kland] #184846
08/07/17 09:20 PM
08/07/17 09:20 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
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Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Gary K
The "scientific method" does not work when studying about God, for the "scientific method" is purely human reasoning. And purely human reasoning can never come to the truth about God, for it cannot rise above the level of humanity. It acknowledges nothing greater than itself. Science cannot prove God exists. It requires faith to find God and to accept Him. And without faith it is impossible to please God. To go down the rabbit hole of science is to go down the same rabbit holes the Greeks, Jews, French, and Protestants have gone down. It is the rabbit hole of believing in human ability over and above the revelation that comes from God.
You are right in a sense. But I wasn't using it in the sense of studying about God. I was using it in a sense of approach. Do you believe we should just believe what someone else says about someone else wrote without actually reading what that person they were writing about actually wrote? That is the sense of what I'm saying of using the principles of the scientific method. Again, repeating, that was my objection.


OK. I understand more of what you're saying now. It's the terminology you used that confused me. Studying things out for one's self is common sense and the Bible tells us that this is a good thing. Paul says it makes us noble.

I still don't understand how you can say you're going to use the principles of the scientific method without actually using it though. If we apply the principles of a method of study we are actually using that method, for the principles of the method are what actually constitute the method.

Last edited by Gary K; 08/07/17 09:38 PM.
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: dedication] #184847
08/07/17 09:35 PM
08/07/17 09:35 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
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Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Originally Posted By: dedication
Yes, truth matters.
Yes, there is only ONE TRUTH.
Yes, Jesus, as the Son of God taught pure truth, unmixed with error.

However, the history of Christianity is terribly marred by people who THINK they have that one truth and went about banning, punishing, exiling, or killing those who believed differently.



And who here has suggested doing that?


The same spirit can be manifested in other ways.
How many times does a conversation in which two can't agree on what they see as truth, end in mud slinging?


I don't know. All I know is if someone treats my words fairly, and responds to me fairly without twisting what I say to mean something other than what I said, I don't find someone disagreeing with me to be something I find objectionable. It's when it crosses the line into dishonesty that I have a problem with it. Better yet, it's the dishonesty that I find objectionable, not the disagreement.

I have changed my mind on some pretty big issues over the years. The largest of them is the nature of Christ. The first time I heard someone holding forth the position I now hold I swore up and down to myself that he was a heretic. I began studying much more deeply on the subject than I ever had before to prove him wrong because we were in the same SS class and I was going to hold him accountable, and I ended up proving myself wrong instead.

I have an open mind to change, but I have done a lot of studying, and I look at everything I can find before I make up my mind, at least I do now after I proved myself wrong, so it takes a lot of evidence to change my mind on something. It doesn't mean I won't change my mind. The evidence just has to prove to me that I'm wrong.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #184852
08/08/17 04:15 AM
08/08/17 04:15 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,433
Canada
That's good. The post wasn't meant to be personal -- just a general reflection on conditions.

I find one of the biggest problems is that forum discussion misses a very important aspect of communication -- and that is the personal presence of the other person -- their tone of voice, their expression, etc. Those elements can make a huge difference in the meaning of words.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: dedication] #184856
08/08/17 05:20 AM
08/08/17 05:20 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline
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Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: dedication
That's good. The post wasn't meant to be personal -- just a general reflection on conditions.

I find one of the biggest problems is that forum discussion misses a very important aspect of communication -- and that is the personal presence of the other person -- their tone of voice, their expression, etc. Those elements can make a huge difference in the meaning of words.
Try substituting the word "letters" with the words "forum posts"
Quote:
2 Co_10:10  For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.
2Co_10:11  Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.
Sometimes, the written element can give us away smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: ] #184860
08/08/17 01:44 PM
08/08/17 01:44 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
Originally Posted By: Gary K
I still don't understand how you can say you're going to use the principles of the scientific method without actually using it though. If we apply the principles of a method of study we are actually using that method, for the principles of the method are what actually constitute the method.
I believe observation is one of the principles of the scientific method.

Should we observe the subject matter, or observe what someone says about the subject matter.

Content is not what I'm objecting to here, but the way to discover the content.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: kland] #184866
08/08/17 04:16 PM
08/08/17 04:16 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Gary K
I still don't understand how you can say you're going to use the principles of the scientific method without actually using it though. If we apply the principles of a method of study we are actually using that method, for the principles of the method are what actually constitute the method.
I believe observation is one of the principles of the scientific method.

Should we observe the subject matter, or observe what someone says about the subject matter.

Content is not what I'm objecting to here, but the way to discover the content.


I guess I don't get it. Sure observation is a part of the scientific method, but it is not "the" scientific method. It is a God-given ability. It has been used since the creation of the world when there was no such thing as a scientific method. Adam used his advanced powers of observation when he named all of God's creation.

Oh, well, if I could communicate perfectly I'd be a billionaire instead of a poor man.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: The Wanderer] #184872
08/09/17 03:14 AM
08/09/17 03:14 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,433
Canada
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Sometimes, the written element can give us away smile


You do have a point there --
On a forum we are much more likely to present our viewpoints.

Page 43 of 46 1 2 41 42 43 44 45 46

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