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Re: Moab, Edom, Amon
[Re: James Peterson]
#186170
03/12/18 02:59 AM
03/12/18 02:59 AM
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OP
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What are your thoughts on this verse?
11:41 but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Actually, I haven't taken any definite view on that verse as of yet
Look at this map. What do you see? I see a nice map showing the location of Edom, Moab and Ammon in relationship with the kingdoms of Judah and Israel as it was about 2850 years ago, before the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests.
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Re: Moab, Edom, Amon
[Re: dedication]
#186171
03/12/18 04:05 AM
03/12/18 04:05 AM
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NON-SDA
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What are your thoughts on this verse?
11:41 but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Actually, I haven't taken any definite view on that verse as of yet
Look at this map. What do you see? I see a nice map showing the location of Edom, Moab and Ammon in relationship with the kingdoms of Judah and Israel as it was about 2850 years ago, before the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests. It illustrates the path of lightning but short-lived conquest of a ruthless king (Dan. 11:41-46) leading down to Egypt, Libya and Ethiopia. It's that simple. It's what the angel said. ///
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Re: Moab, Edom, Amon
[Re: dedication]
#186175
03/12/18 03:58 PM
03/12/18 03:58 PM
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SDA
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It is a very hopeful picture for the people living in that area, if this is the correct interpretation. Does that mean that only if it's correct, they can be hopeful to escape the mark of the beast, that there's no other way? Predestined? Everyone is urged to escape the mark of the beast, and by faith and the grace and power of God may do so. But I was referring to a prophecy concerning whole countries or nations; is Roosenberg's interpretation correct? If it is, then it would seem whole nations are prophesied as escaping the mark of the beast. My question was concerning the correctness of that interpretation. What are your thoughts on this verse? 11:41 but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. Actually, I haven't taken any definite view on that verse as of yet
Whether a country is overthrown or not does not determine whether the people receive the mark of the beast. Escaping from the overthrowing does not reflect receiving or not receiving the mark. Has your country been overthrown? Have some received the mark of the beast? I'd say many have in the U.S. So overthrowing or not has no relation to receiving or not receiving the mark of the beast.
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Re: Moab, Edom, Amon
[Re: dedication]
#186176
03/12/18 04:00 PM
03/12/18 04:00 PM
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SDA
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Perhaps you should define, "the mark of the beast".
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Re: Moab, Edom, Amon
[Re: Charity]
#186178
03/12/18 04:12 PM
03/12/18 04:12 PM
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But regardless, because this prohibition against Ammonite and Moabite males was part of the Mosaic law, it was annulled by the death of Christ so it does not apply after 33AD.
Not not mean I disagree, but do you have something specific about being annulled at death? I'd be interested to know.
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Re: Moab, Edom, Amon
[Re: kland]
#186180
03/13/18 04:26 AM
03/13/18 04:26 AM
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OP
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Perhaps you should define, "the mark of the beast". Probably better to direct you to the one who initially made the statement his book. Remember Daryl commented that Tim Roosenberg in his presentations speaks favourably of Edom based on that text in Daniel 11. So I asked, what does Tim Roosenberg say? I quoted from: Roosenberg's book -- (quoting it again to include the full statement, which may better answer Kland's question. These verses suggest a three way breakup of Islam.
1. Those who "escape" from the papal alliance are represented by modern Jordan, a moderate Islamic state. Spiritually this my represent the Islamic "children of Abraham" spiritually from the line of Lot, Ishmael, and Esau who will accept Jesus
(Gal. 3:26-29, Matt.8:11) and escape
the mark of the beast (Rev.13:8, Hebrews 2:3),
those who do not follow the Papacy and are
written in the book, Daniel 12:1 and Rev.17:8.!
2. Those who do not escape-- Egypt and many others. They are the radical center of Islam that will be defeated.
3. Those that shall follow at his heels. (taken from "Islam & Christianity" p.210, by Tim Roosenberg)
Roosenberg has an interesting chart CHARTThe red line represents the papal power, the black the Islamic power, and how it fits the Biblical prophetic time lines. Then at this link STUDY GUIDE he gives his thoughts, verse by verse, on Daniel 11:3 to Dan. 12:3. The quote I shared are his comments on Daniel 11:41, from that study -- though I also have the study in his book.
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Re: Moab, Edom, Amon
[Re: dedication]
#186182
03/14/18 12:23 AM
03/14/18 12:23 AM
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SDA
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Well, although you seem well versed in what the book says, if you aren't going to tell me, I'll have to find some time to look up the links, which doesn't sound like it tells, or find access to his book, which may be difficult.
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Re: Moab, Edom, Amon
[Re: dedication]
#186183
03/14/18 04:40 AM
03/14/18 04:40 AM
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Roosenberg's definition of the "mark of the beast"? The best place to go to find that is his book and sermons. In previous quote: "the mark of the beast.. those who do not follow the Papacy and are written in the Lamb's book of life. Rev. 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, (the papal beast) whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. From his book --page 116 and 118
The book of Revelation speaks of a seal and a mark. You want God's sign--the seal--not the beast's sign, the mark. Would any sane person want to receive the mark? God is pretty emphatic with that warning. The people with the seal are following Jesus, because they love Him. "Here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus," says verse 12.....
Likewise, the new covenant that we found in Jeremiah 31:31-33 was God's law being written in our hearts and our minds. Remember that the new covenant comes in the Old Testament and it is about worship . We worship the Creator God...
Ezekiel 20:12 identifies the sign that we are God's people and He is our God. "I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them." He said that His sign is the Sabbath.
We saw earlier that the king of the north shifted the day of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and that the king of the south established his day of public assembly and worship on Friday. Satan is pulling the Sabbath off the mark...
Some claim that by observing the Sabbath we try to make ourselves holy, but the exact opposite is true. God said that keeping the Sabbath is a reminder that it is He who renders us holy. [sanctifies us}...
The king of the north went to Sunday, the king of the South to Friday, and God's people--His true Israel--as they honor His Word find themselves worshipping on the Saturday Sabbath, between the two days...caught in the middle. They have to hang on to Jesus even though the going gets tough for a while.
His own words Tidings from the East and the Mark of the Beast.
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Re: Moab, Edom, Amon
[Re: dedication]
#186185
03/14/18 03:07 PM
03/14/18 03:07 PM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
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Posts: 1,195
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page 116 and 118:
The book of Revelation speaks of a seal and a mark. You want God's sign--the seal--not the beast's sign, the mark. Would any sane person want to receive the mark? God is pretty emphatic with that warning. The people with the seal are following Jesus, because they love Him. "Here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus," says verse 12.....
Likewise, the new covenant that we found in Jeremiah 31:31-33 was God's law being written in our hearts and our minds. Remember that the new covenant comes in the Old Testament and it is about worship . We worship the Creator God...
Ezekiel 20:12 identifies the sign that we are God's people and He is our God. "I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them." He said that His sign is the Sabbath.
We saw earlier that the king of the north shifted the day of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and that the king of the south established his day of public assembly and worship on Friday. Satan is pulling the Sabbath off the mark...
Some claim that by observing the Sabbath we try to make ourselves holy, but the exact opposite is true. God said that keeping the Sabbath is a reminder that it is He who renders us holy. [sanctifies us}...
The king of the north went to Sunday, the king of the South to Friday, and God's people--His true Israel--as they honor His Word find themselves worshipping on the Saturday Sabbath, between the two days...caught in the middle. They have to hang on to Jesus even though the going gets tough for a while.
noun 1. a curved instrument used to ease one's heel into a shoe. verb 1. force into an inadequate space. - "people were shoehorned into cramped corners", OR
- "passages of scripture have been shoehorned into the doctrines of men and vice versa", OR
- "the sabbath has been shoehorned into the cross of Christ", OR
- "the fulcrum of salvation is no longer Christ but a period of time when men look pious. Look pious on Wednesdays? Not counted. Look pious on Saturdays? Glory Alleluia!" OR
- "the cross of Christ has been overshadowed by a day", OR
- "men bow down before an alter of Sabbath and pray, crying out, 'Save me!'" OR
- "who cares what the scripture says, we love SABBATH", OR
- "let's throw in a mention of jesus here and there and make it sound like the real deal", OR
- "Saturday cleanses us from all unrighteousness. Amen!"
///
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Re: Moab, Edom, Amon
[Re: dedication]
#186195
03/16/18 06:39 AM
03/16/18 06:39 AM
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OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022
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If you look to the Sabbath to save you -- yes then you will be sorely disappointed. God's law doesn't save anyone. Christ saves, forgives and cleanses. If Sabbath observance is just a "ritual" one thinks they have to perform in order to earn merits with God, they have the wrong concept. A cultural Sabbath is nothing more than a cultural ritual. Meaningless, if the meaning is lost. But think of it this way, if Christ took one ordinary day of the week and made it HOLY. (As Genesis 2:3 says He did) Does that make it special? Now think == in what way does it make it special? What Christ makes holy -- is holy. Next step. Do you believe Christ can make you holy? If He can make a day holy -- doesn't it give assurance that He can make you and me holy? "I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them." Ez. 20:12Meditate on that verse
[1]a sign, not the means, but a sign -- a sign of what?
[2] between us and our Lord == (a relationship with our Lord)
[3] a sign that we look to the Lord to sanctify (make us holy).
[4] and that we KNOW, --- we know what? We KNOW that He sanctifies us ==
He alone is the source and power for sanctification and holiness.
What is "holiness"? Isn't it in Christ, by accepting His grace, and seeking His will for our lives, and submitting ourselves to Him, being led by His Spirit on the paths of righteousness? And if He asks us to REMEMBER something, what do we do? Will fighting against what He asks us to REMEMBER bring salvation and holiness? Is the cross to be looked at as an "indulgence" to disregard His will for us? The Sabbath is a sign that Christ is our Lord and Savior and we are trusting in HIM to sanctify us! We come to Him in obedience to His call to remember; "confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in us will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Phil 1:6 A sign is often a small thing -- Like a flag -- shoe horned into allegiance to a whole country. Trample on it, and that is a sign of something much deeper.
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