APL, remind me, what do you say about Sodom's destruction, the 180K Assyrians, the flood, the 10 plagues. . . all from God removing His protection? Is that right?

God never changes.

The same when David killed the bear and lion? Goliath? When God gave super human strength to Samson and the armies of Israel to slay those who God directed them to kill?

So, if God empowered men with skill and divinely strengthened them to kill, why limit the angels who excel in strength and God's power to also fulfill His will?

Question Mark - did the children of Israel ever need to fight? Why did they fight?

Did you see the video in the opening post? I'm not sure you did.

The thing I like about God directly punishing me, not just letting sin have its way, is that it reassures me of a father's love. Like David when he numbered Israel, God gave him a choice of three punishments, and David wisely chose the "fall into the hands of God" not of man.

If God is bound to let sin have its way according to natural law, he shouldn't have intervened and given David a choice should He?

Moses, at God's direction, led them in battle against Og and those on the east of the Jordan. On the west do you think it was different? Jones or maybe Wagoner made that case, but even if true, and I tend to think otherwise, you still have the greatest and godliest of them all, Moses, leading the armies triumphantly east of the Jordan. So what about my point that God gave superhuman strength and performed the greatest of miracles to assist Joshua in the conquest of the Promised Land - making the sun stand still for a day. How is that allowing nature and evil to take its course?

Mark - DID YOU WATCH THE VIDEO? This is what this thread is about, yet I don't see you commenting on it at all.

Again, you did not directly answer the question, did the Children of Israel need to fight in order to gain the promise land? THE ANSWER is NO! Yet they did fight. Why? EGW tells us clearly, you do know what she said, right? I don't have to tell you what she said, right?

Waggoner does indeed present the case of Israel fighting, and that there was NO NEED for them to fight, but fight they did AND with God's direction too. But this in no way proves that they needed to fight. He points out in the same discussion, that God gave laws for divorce, but that also in no proves that God wanted divorce. So WHY did God give laws for divorce and fighting? It was for the same reason, what was it??? There is your answer.

James 1:20 For the wrath of man works not the righteousness of God.

Mark - what does EGW say about the inevitable results of Sin in Desire of Ages chapter 79? Did God allow the inevitable results of sin to play out in the beginning of the Great Controversy? Is not, why not? And when the Controversy is ended, must God then impose a penalty on the sinner or let the "inevitable result of sin" play out?

DID YOU WATCH THE VIDEO YET?

APL you haven't answered my questions.