DID you watch the video in the opening post? That is what this thread is about. IF you have, and I have not seen evidence that you did indeed watch it, then perhaps you need open a different thread. The topic of this thread is this video.

I don't mean to trouble you APL. I'll cease and desist. But before I posted here I did watched the video - some of it.

You should listen to the end. This young man is every clear.

You are not troubling me one bit. But if you have not listened to this video completely, then you should start a different tread. But it was clear, you were not addressing the video.

I'll add this quote of EGW:
Sickness, suffering, and death are work of an antagonistic power. Satan is the destroyer; God is the restorer. {MH 113.1}

If you have your god using ANY of these modalities ever, then it is not like my God.

APL you're doing us a good service to point that out. It does influence my thinking. It's a good reminder.

At the same time I can't allow one inspired statement to destroy another. All are true whether we're able to reconcile them fully in our minds or not. That's where faith comes in.

Before posting any replies I watched three segments of the video, one at the start, one in the middle and one at the end.

Again - it appears you did NOT listen to the whole video. A segment here and there is not the whole. It is youtube, you can play it at greater than 1x. The fact that one statement does not destroy another and how many seemingly contradictory statements can be found and how to reconcile them is brought out in the video. It still stands, that ALL sickness, suffering and death is the work of an antagonistic power. It is not the work of God. Sin kills, not God. Many believe that God will act just like Nebuchadnezzar, and the truth is just the opposite.

When Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, was it not of God that he begged, "Let this cup pass from me"? It was not to Satan that he prayed. Because, all things are under God the Father.

God Himself, the Father that is, does not perform miracles. He has people to do that for Him. His Only-begotten Son died for us on His behalf. His angels minister to us on His behalf. The same applies to punishment and judgment as to blessing and honour. God Himself does nothing. He has people who do those things for Him on His command or will. 1

There is, on the other hand, the natural course of nature that claims the happiness and even lives of lawbreakers and those caught in the midst. And then, there is the wickedness of the Devil whose hand God must often stay.

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1 The Son of Man will send out His angels, AND THEY WILL GATHER OUT of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, AND THEY WILL CAST them into the furnace of fire. Mat. 13:41-42

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But how do you reconcile those apparently conflicting statements? I believe APL has done well with such in the past. But the opposite side had God acting fickle.

Again, who killed Saul is the key question.
If the answer applies to one place in the Bible, can it not apply to other places?

I do agree that the video content doesn't match the title of this thread to ponder on Jer 23:20 in considering the act of God done in Jeremiah as "perfectly".

I believe the reference in Jer 23:20 of the "latter days" is a reference of this strange act [of destroying Jerusalem and its temple] to be repeated a third time and it will be a PERFECT Act of the justice of God. This on it's own would require a study of Isa 29, Jer 19 and Gal 4 and other scriptures to see a 3rd destruction of Jerusalem and it's temple and understand why it was done in the pass and needed to be done again -- a third time.

However, the way some interpret Jer 23:20 and make a relation with the 3 angels message in Rev 14 attributing the destruction to the wicked people (instead of Jerusalem and its temple) at Jesus 2nd coming...is missing the entire point of Jer 23 and other scriptures. This text should not be compared with Rev 14.

Once we understand what the Lord really says in Jer 23 and other scriptures; I do see this(the destruction of the earthly Jerusalem and its temple) as a PERFECT Act of God's justice with mercy.

Yes some people will die just like it happened in the other 2 destruction; but that is the consequence of living under the umbrella and believing the words of the Pastors and Prophets of those days. Jeremiah 23 mainly rebukes the Pastors and the prophets of those days that fed the people lies and scattered them all over and did not care for them.

Another thing to note when reading Jeremiah, it was only the people who resisted the Babylonian who died. Resisting the Babylonian was resisting and rebelling against God's judgment. This in God's law is contempt of court and the judgment for that is the death penalty. So the people who believed the Pastors and Prophets lies and resisted the Babylonians died. However, the people who believed the word of Jeremiah who told them to submit to Babylon did not die.

So we read in Jeremiah 24 that the people of those days were divided into 2 groups: 1. the basket of good figs who represented the ones that submitted to God's judgment versus 2. the basket of evil figs who represented those who resisted God's judgment.


Yes the man in the video did attempt to reconcile some seemingly contradictory statements with EGW writings and a few Bible text brought out of context; but to me it is still not in harmony of what scriptures actually says thus it remains that man spoke words and tradition of man.


Well, it appears you still have to ignore much scriptures to stick to the above belief. You feel you need to separate anything that appears "evil" or is "hurthful" from God's hands by directing all these acts as Satan's. This is far from what the Bible says.

God's first claims ultimate responsibility including satan's action (as satan is God's creature and He is his owner) when reading the story of A&E and from His own laws of liabilities. Then in scriptures God takes credits for all these acts of "sickness, suffering, and death". It is through sickness, suffering and death that God does afterwards brings us to healing, prosperity, and life. The seed first needs to die before it can come to life.


God still used Nebuchadnezzar to bring judgment on Jerusalem, the Temple, and the nation of Judah despite he was far from being a perfect man. Actually Nebuchad.. was not even a believer but a barbarian gentile. Despite this, God said 3 times that Nebuchadnezzar was His servants even thought the king wasn't aware of it. God said this because He raised Nebuchadnezzar up to bring judgment on Jerusalem and its temple by bringing them to destruction.

Note that Jerusalem and the temple were BOTH EARTHLY establishment that the Leaders used to direct the faith and pride of the people to. Their uninspired prophets said that God would never destroy the temple or Jerusalem contradictory to the word that Jeremiah had received. But at the end God did destroy their precious city and temple. And He even did it a second time in 70 AD.

This became a "stange Act" to us as we humans or the believers in those days didn't think that God would ever do something like that.... however at the end God did it [BTW sorry APL it was NOT Satan that did it] ...because His ways are not our ways.

Why???? because the earthly city and the earthly temple were suppose to be only earthly representative of what is to come spiritually. Read Gal 4. God never intended that we came to put any importance or worthyness of our worship to these earthly representation. It is like when Moses made the bronze snake to heal the people...later on the people worshiped that bronze snake and miss altogether the symbolic representation of it to Christ death. If I recall correctly scripture (in the time of David???) says that bronze snake was destroyed. I believe this needed to be done so to help the people to detach from this misconception.

These false ideology we end up worshiping leads us to missing God's point entirely. That these were only an earthly symbol. We miss the point by not understanding what these represents God's spiritual work (eg. of building the heavenly City by which is also called Jerusalem with the bodies of each believer that are a living stone and together we make the true temple of God). This is the work that He's doing inside of us. It is an invisible type of work that needs earthly signs to show us what is happening spiritually. So God doesn't want us to end up worshipping or putting any importance on the earthly signs (eg. Jerusalem or the earthly temple); but wants us to come to understand what God is doing behind the scene spiritually within all of us.

So by destroying the earthly City and Temple already twice and I believe a coming third time.... it is a perfect work because in it :

1. shows the mercy of God in this interference act so to save us from our misconception and to show us the lies of our pastors and prophets;

2. like in Gal 4 says, the earthly Jerusalem that Hagar answers to, who is a bond woman that represent the old covenant has to be cast out so to help her children enter the new covenant.

"Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman." Gal 4:30 So that the sons of the bondwoman(Hagar who answers to the earthly Jerusalem) won't inherit with the son of the freewoman. The son of Hagar thinks they will inherit. That's a big problem for them and prohibit them to grow. By casting out Hagar and her son (an act of mercy again), this false thinking is being address directly. So that afterwards they can enter the true kingdom under Sarah, the free woman == the New Jerusalem under the New covenant and become her children.

3. This problem of answering at the earthly Jerusalem is still prevalent today. God's Kingdom membership is "heavenly" under the New Jerusalem from above and not from a claimed denomination that keeps an earthly membership book and saying that they are the true Church of God like Judaism, Islam, Catholic, and many protestant churches today still does. So it is not just Islam(or Ishmael children) that has that problem, every other denomination and religion that adhere to an earthly establishment are Hagar children.

So Gal 4:31 encourages us who might be with this wrong "faith" or have this mis-conception.... that we are NOT children of the bondwoman but children of Sarah who represents the New Jerusalem. "So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free."

The Perfection of this "strange act" is a necessary prophetic work to set the blind children of the bond-woman free so they can become children of Sarah.


Another note ... To compare the incident of Jeremiah and the destruction of Jerusalem & temple to the 3 Angels message of Rev 14 --- I see this not a worthy comparison at all because the destruction in Jeremiah was directed to Jerusalem and the Temple whereas the destruction in Revelation is directed to Babylon and its establishment and system. Despite it has some similarity in which both are earthly, establishment & system, and both acted like beasts in their ruling; they are not the same as one represented God's coming eternal Kingdom whereas the other remain an earthly beastly kingdom that will find no place on earth with time.

In Jeremiah God used Babylon to bring judgment on God's people for their disobedience and trust on their earthly temple & city. Babylon (its entire statue of Dan 2) was given a period of 7 times to rule by which during this allocated time they had the responsibility to bring in the Fruits of the Kingdom that Israel and Judah had previously failed to do and were judged for their lack (Isaiah 5:1-7; Matthew 21:33-44).

So at the end of the Babylonian time of ruling, by which they also failed to bring in the fruits of the kingdom; it is now time to judge Mystery Babylon in Revelation 14-18 for their failure to bring in the fruits of the Kingdom. This failure was expected. And so after the fall of Babylon or its statue, scriptures tells us the Kingdom is given to the Saints of the Most High in Daniel 7 and Rev 20:5,6; etc... The Saints of the Most High (or the 144K aka the overcomers) with Jesus (after His 2nd coming) will not failed to produce the fruits of the Kingdom like old Israel and Babylon has failed in the past.

Actually, I think he did a good job! May not match your "godskindomministrys" guy, but that is a good thing!

Ok, I finished listening to it. All of it. I may not have understood everything but here's what I got from it.


Ps 103:7 He made known His ways to Moses, His acts to the children of Israel.
God showed Moses His ways, Israel saw God's acts.

If you see how God acts, but don't understand His ways, you are in trouble.

The Bible was written by God's penmen, not His pen. It may not be expressed in the same way if God would have written it with His own hand.

One saying of the Savior must not be made to destroy another.
(Which Charity might have understood if he listened to all of it)

James 1:20 For the wrath of man works not the righteousness of God.

God is righteous at all times. The wrath of man never works the righteousness of God. Then God's wrath never functions as man's wrath.
It is not counting wrath, such as man does, to be righteousness.
(I think Green and a few others do not understand this)

Man's wrath:

• casts people into fiery furnaces if they don't worship as he says,
• casts people into the lion's den if they don't worship as he says,
• kills people who don't worship the image of the beast as he says.

If you reject their peace, they come to you with death.

It is Satan, and men actuated by his spirit, that seek to compel the conscience.

There can be no more conclusive evidence that we possess the spirit of Satan than the disposition to hurt and destroy those who do not appreciate our work, or who act contrary to our ideas. {DA 487.3}

Is the pope the vicar of your picture of your god?


Re 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Re 14:10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them. {GC 589.2}

Compelling power is found only under Satan's government.



God is powerless to save us against our choice.


This is NOT an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he SEPARATES from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Ephesians 4:18; Proverbs 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. {DA 764.1}