I believe the Bible --
The Bible says the Dragon is that old serpent the devil, Satan.

Sorry if that shocks you.

The "testimonies" of EGW do not contradict the Bible, I know what she wrote.
She says, the dragon is said to be Satan in Rev. 12:9. The chief agent he worked through in making war against Christ when He was on earth, and against the first century church, was pagan Rome.
Nothing I wrote contradicts that.

The dragon of Rev. 12, works through his heads, (human kingdoms)
Revelation is all about the dragon (Satan) attacking Christ and His people.
Yes, the 4th head is pagan Rome which was in power when Christ was upon earth establishing His church. Before that, the dragon used the first three heads (empires) to try and wipe out the people through whom the seed (the Messiah) was to come.
In Revelation 12 we also see the dragon attacking God's people during the 1260 years -- that was NOT pagan Rome
That was the dragon's fifth head (papal Rome).
Revelation 12 also tells us the dragon wages war on the last day church -- that is NOT pagan Rome. (That is his seventh dragon head of mystic babylon)

Just wondering if you read what I wrote before responding, or only jumped on one phrase without looking at the context?
I'll show you a little of the context of what was written--



Spew contempt on the reformers -- no I never mentioned any reformers, and most certainly do not have contempt for the reformers. They were very courageous and broke the control of the papacy over the minds of the people. God used them in a mighty way -- but while they had made gigantic leaps in understanding scripture, doesn't mean their understanding was perfect and need no more searching for more understanding..

Do you think Adventist pioneers like J.N.Andrews and U.Smith spew contempt on the reformers when they wrote that the seven MOUNTAINS of Revelation 17,could not possible be literal hills?
(see post here in this thread)

No -- they respected the reformers, but that didn't stop them from searching and studying and coming to the conclusion that the seven MOUNTAINS were symbolic and could not possible be literal hills.

Where is your biblical precedence?

When The fourth beast of Daniel conquered Europe are the other beasts still on the stage? No, they are not. Every one of the previous beasts gets conquered. You have no idea what you are talking about.

"And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise." Daniel 2:40.

ALL of the previous beasts destroyed the beast before them. They don't just hand over the keys.



This is the ONLY transfer of power that was without a battle. The Dragon, PAGAN ROME, willingly hands the City of Seven hills to the Bishop of Rome who then becomes the HEAD of the beast.

And yes you did ridicule the Protestant Reformers saying that they didn't even read Revelation 12.

The message of Revelation 12 and the three angels message.

The chief contenders for the human soul are ---
The Lamb slain for our salvation, yet alive forever more,
The Dragon the devil.

Few realize the intense battle being waged over their soul.
Everyone will make a choice as to who wins in their life.



Revelation 12:12 Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

7T 142
The great conflict that Satan created in the heavenly courts is soon, very soon, to be forever decided. Soon all the inhabitants of the earth will have taken sides, either for or against the government of heaven. ...To the people far and near we are to bring home the question: "Are you following the great apostate in disobedience to God's law, or are you following the Son of God, who declared, 'I have kept My Father's commandments'?"

4T 210
We are living in the last days. John exclaims: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he has but a short time: Christ is the only refuge in these perilous times. Satan is at work in secrecy and darkness. Cunningly he draws away the followers of Christ from the cross and brings them into self indulgence and wickedness.

Revelation 12:11 But they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

9MR240
Praise the Lord.. We may overcome through the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony lifting up the Christ, giving to to the world a living example of a Christ like life that man may overcome "by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony."

CH 424
If we are determined not to be separated from the Source of our strength, Jesus will be just as determined to be at our right hand to help us, that we may not be put to shame before our enemies. The grace of Christ can accomplish for us that which all our efforts will fail to do....The Saviour says, "Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white: for they are worthy." Revelation 3:4. These souls overcame by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. Amid the moral pollution that prevailed on every hand, they held fast their integrity. And why? They were partakers of the divine nature, and thus they escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. They became rich in faith, heirs to an inheritance of more value than the gold of Ophir. Only a life of constant dependence upon the Saviour is a life of holiness.

To insist that the Dragon is Pagan Rome is to deny the definition the BIBLE gives to the dragon.
Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:
It also denies what the dragon is described doing in Revelation 12, which spans far more in BOTH directions than what pagan rome every spanned.


The dragon is that old serpent, the Devil, Satan.
Yes, Rome is a chief identity through whom the dragon works -- (that's why the dragon has seven heads-- seven powerful human kingdoms through whom he works)
Pagan Rome is a PART of the dragon, but it is not the dragon himself.

And no, even though the kingship of the previous empires was wrested from them, their influence and legacy remained and were absorbed and with us even today.

The issue is -- you seem to look at these kingdoms mainly in their temporal power stage.
But Revelation isn't primarily a history lesson. Revelation is describing the Great Controversy.
Ancient Babylon, Ancient Persia, and Greece ALL have left huge footprints, and are still exerting influence even in our world today that the dragon uses.
Daniel 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged.
So yes, Babylon, Media Persia, and Greece all had their dominion taken away -- yet they CONTINUE.


Example -- Greek philosophy greatly influenced early Christian thinking in not the best ways. The dragon used Greek philosophy to pollute doctrine. Papal dress and practices, the whole mother/child worship -- the whole "heavenly queen mother" idea comes from way back, and even the pope's title. Pontious Maximus, can be traced right back to ancient Babylon.

And yes, the dragon transfers the seat of his fourth head (pagan Rome) and gives it to a Christian institution (papal Rome). I've never denied that -- in fact it's pretty obvious that pagan Rome is the extension of imperial Rome -- they even boast of that. There is nothing in scripture to say each head has to conquer the previous to gain headship. Yet, each head has it's turn at headship.

The dragon's heads are all powerful kingdoms through which Satan persecute s Christ and His followers.
in the end even the USA becomes one of the dragon's heads (the sixth head) because the dragon uses this strong nation to facilitate and bring in his final mystic Babylon. The two horned beast speaks like the dragon, does the dragon's will, assimilates itself to the Papal beast, by making an image, enables the full and complete healing of the fifth head (papal Rome), and together they merge into into the seventh head -- mystery Babylon.

The dragon's breath is getting too hot in this thread. He really does breathe fire sometimes! Maybe we should all take a break until the heat dissipates a bit.

(This is just a kindly suggestion.)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Although these words are in the footnotes of the Spirit of Prophecy Volume 4, Ellen White herself wrote and formulated these thoughts.

Dedication, you contradict the Testimonies of Jesus Christ and defend it.

Let those who read this chose this day who they will listen to. The proven word of God or a woman defending her own words.

I am not the Dragon GC. Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

The Bible definition:
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth,

EGW mentions pagan Rome in A SECONDARY sense (not the primary but in a secondary sense)

Notice she gives the BIBLICAL definition FIRST.
"The dragon is said to be Satan; [Revelation 12:9.] he it was that moved upon Herod to put the Saviour to death. But the chief agent of Satan in making war upon Christ and his people during the first centuries of the Christian era, was the Roman Empire, in which paganism was the prevailing religion. Thus while the dragon, primarily, represents Satan, it is, in a secondary sense, a symbol of pagan Rome. {GC88 438.2}

EGW agrees -- The dragon is that old serpent, the Devil, Satan.


But in a secondary sense, yes, Rome is a chief identity through whom the dragon works --
Pagan Rome was in "headship position" or "chief agent" during the time of Christ's birth, Pagan Rome represent the dragon during that time period. But it's not the only time period Rev. 12 addresses in which the dragon works (that's why the dragon has seven heads-- seven powerful human kingdoms through whom he works)
Pagan Rome is a PART of the dragon, active in the first centuries of Christianity, but it is not the totality of the dragon himself.

And yes, the dragon through pagan roman (the fourth head) gave his seat to papal Rome (the fifth head).

EGW does not contradict the Bible, she fully recognizes that the Dragon is Satan.
I sincerely wish you could see, that what you are doing is trying to force me (and others) to say EGW contradicts scripture. But she does not.

You are right on target till this point. Then you say



Where does she say Pagan Rome was in a "headship position" during the time of Christ's birth?

Where do you find those words in her writings to put them in quotations? Are you quoting yourself? That would be very apropos.


You contradict the Testimonies and the pioneers. This means that you are not on the same path but have devised your own.

Now let me bring the boom down... Please follow this closely since you have gone so far to prove your point then I'm sure that you won't mind going a bit further.

The wound was inflicted on one of the "heads" of the beast, correct? Then if your interpretation is correct let me see your summersaults and acrobatics to explain this quote. (I'm quite amused here)




Ooops, there goes your ignorant theory. At this point, the heads are now POPES, not the Papal kingdom, not any country or other power but Pope Pius VI was "this MAN noted in prophecy", the HEAD that received the deadly wound was the POPE. The HEAD of the Catholic church.

Boom!

Let me guess what your reply will be.

"Lalalalalala I can't hear you!"

Right? Let's see it.