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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194867
06/18/22 08:46 AM
06/18/22 08:46 AM
TheophilusOne  Online Content
Active Member 2022

Posting New Member
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 31
Wow! I gotta print this out. It is an excellent study.

I'm gonna have to take a hard look at this. This isn't something one can lightly read.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194873
06/23/22 09:58 AM
06/23/22 09:58 AM
Karen Y  Offline OP
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 410
Michigan, US
I find plain revelation in the form of patterns regarding the heavenly beings around the throne of God.

The different teams of four living creatures, 24 Elders, thousands and thousands of angels, and all creatures in heaven are standing before the throne of God in the vision.

Notice in this vision that no human beings stand before the throne except the 24 Elders of the firstfruits which Jesus took at His ascension.

The phrase "for ever and ever" indicates that each heaven team never escapes its association when they praise God's attributes around their concentric position before the throne.

1) The four living-creatures:
Rev. 4:8-9 "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,"

2) The 24 Elders:
Rev. 4:10 "The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,"

3) Every creature in heaven:
Rev. 5:13 "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."

The notion of "for ever and ever" for God is already mentioned in Rev. 1:6.

Rev. 1:6 "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

What strikes me by this apparent pattern is why the numerous angels who are to work for the heirs of salvation (Heb.1:14) do not have the word associated with "for ever and ever" in this vision.

However, they sing sevenfold praises in this part of the vision. I almost feel like telling them don't forget to say "for ever and ever" like all other teams because that is the pattern.

Nevertheless, they say "for ever and ever" with "Amen....Amen" when all the heirs of salvation arrive before the throne of God, plus emphatic sevenfold praises.

Rev. 7:12 "Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

It shows that the angels would not be satisfied unless their duty to serve humanity for their redemption.

The two distinct groups who are redeemed from the earth are 1) Great Multitudes and 2) 144,000.

The Great Multitudes are the saints resurrected from their sleep in the Lord for over 6,000 years. So, they are countless or numberless redeemed saints.

The 144,000 are the literal number of saints who will taste no death but go through the great tribulation and meet the Lord alive.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194883
07/04/22 11:26 AM
07/04/22 11:26 AM
Karen Y  Offline OP
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 410
Michigan, US
In Rev. 12, there are two great wonders in heaven: 1) a woman and 2)a great red dragon. The woman represents the church, equating to the seven churches of Revelation. Notice that she is wearing a crown that Jesus promised to give (Rev. 2:10 and 3:11) for the triumphant church.

The red dragon intends to snatch the woman's crown (the church in which the head is Jesus Christ). The dragon appeared to have seven heads, for he intended to take the crown out of her. The imageries of Ch. 12 of Revelation indicate why the dragon has seven heads with seven crowns on his head, but the church has the crown God gave to the woman.
The beginning point of the dragon with his seven heads juxtaposed with the woman is when Jesus "was caught up unto God" (Rev. 12:5). Thus, the seven heads should be considered Satan's opposing power against the churches.

The dragon wants to be the head of the seven churches. Each of the seven churches mentions Satan's attempts:
2:2 "...and hast found them liars"-Satan is the father of liars(John 8:44);
2:9 "...are the synagogue of Satan";
2:13 "...where Satan dwells";
2:24"...have not known the depth of Satan";
3:1"...thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead"-Satan has the power of death(Heb. 2:14);
3:9 "behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan..."
and Laodicea church has no further saying of Satan because of their spiritual deaf ear.

The vicegerent of the dragon, the sea beast, also has identical imagery with seven heads and ten horns(Rev. 13:1) like the dragon of Rev. 12:3.

He has, however, his crown on the ten horns, not on the seven heads.
Rev. 17:12 said the ten horns are ten kings, and the seven heads are seven mountains which the harlot woman sits, also called seven kings.

In short, I believe the dragon's seven heads should be the opposing power of Satan against the historical time of the seven churches.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194894
07/18/22 10:23 AM
07/18/22 10:23 AM
Karen Y  Offline OP
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 410
Michigan, US
The harlot woman of Revelation sits on the seven-headed beast, in which the connotation is that she controls the subject. A woman represents the church in prophecy. Therefore, a harlot woman represents a false church.

Which church persecuted the people of God as no one else did over the dispensational historical time of the church? It was the papal system. When Jesus resurrected and ascended to heaven, He built His church on the earth. "upon this rock I will build my church." (Matt. 16:18).

The grassroots of the antichrist power already existed in the first century. "
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." (1 John 2:18).

The harlot woman-antichrist- came into the scene after Jesus established the church. She could not have sat when there was no seven-headed beast during the old empires. She could not have sat upon the kingdoms of old. Even the imagery of the dragon came into a scene with seven heads and ten horns when the pure woman was about to give birth to the child, the Christ. (See Rev. 12).

The devil's diabolical powers stand against the church over seven church periods. Satan's tactics are highly sophisticated and intelligent to deceive people in the church. Therefore, the image of the dragon in rev. 12 is seven heads and ten horns. He gave his power, seat, and authority to the sea beast (Rev. 13:2). So the beast appeared with seven heads and ten horns (Rev. 13:1).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194912
07/26/22 10:57 AM
07/26/22 10:57 AM
Karen Y  Offline OP
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 410
Michigan, US
Revelation 16:5-7 say that the harlot of Babylon is judged:

"And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be,
because thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments."

What is the qualified reason that the harlot must be judged and deserve a divine punishment?

Did God give her time to repent? Rev. 2:21 "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not."

How long has she fornicated with the kings of the earth?

Rev. 17:1-2 "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication."

What is the standard of judgment?

Rev. 11:19 "And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

Who attacks and prevents people from receiving the seal of God? Instead, enforces the mark of the beast?

Rev. 13:15 " as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads."

When is the judgment begun?

Rev. 14:7 "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

When did the judgment of the harlot begin?

It began when the Advent Movement gave birth to the remnant church that keeps the entire commandments of God and lifts the seventh day Sabbath, the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

The judgment of God allows "space to repent of her fornication" (Rev. 2:21), while the seven trumpets' message makes a clear warning, but the harlot refuses to repent until the end of the judgment hour.

Rev. 19:2 "For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand."

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