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Zechariah's eight visions #195478
02/19/23 04:15 AM
02/19/23 04:15 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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The message of Zechariah?s first six chapters in historical context:

A group of Judeans have returned from exile.
Jerusalem and the surrounding area was in ruins.
The returned exiles are building homes for themselves, trying to carve out life for themselves amidst the ruins.
They had started to rebuild the temple, but opposition was intimidating, and they had decided the time was not right to rebuild the temple.

But the Lord had other plans
it is time to rebuild the temple.
This appeal was the main communication behind a series of eight short visions that God gave to Zechariah in order to help him to understand from a broader perspective the contemporary situation of God?s people.

Each of the visions enlarge the readers understanding and reasoning, building and deepened the understanding of the message.
They were written in a chiastic order (in a mirror structure), which means that the first vision corresponds with the last one, the eighth; the second with the seventh; the third with the sixth; and, finally, at the climax is the fourth, accompanied by the fifth. These pairs also deal with related subjects, which are chronologically arranged in a reverse order.

A. 8th vision The horses go out, chariots signifying war.
A. 1st vision the horses have returned there is peace in the land

B. 7th vision Women in a basket being carried to Babylon and God's people called to come out.
B, 2nd vision 4 horns that scattered, but the damage is being fixed by four carpenters

C. 6th vision Flying scroll with severe verdict of judgment coming against commandments broken
C 3rd vision of a Man with a measuring rod measuring the rebuilding of Jerusalem

D 5th vision Holy Spirit gives power to Zerubbabel to rebuild
D 4th vision cleansing and forgiveness, priesthood cleansed

Study the visions in reversed sequence. (exiled Israel being restored) Begin with the last vision and go to the first (from war and exile to peace and restoration).

Compare the chiastic patterns. The seventh one pointing out apostacy and then examine the second one (pointing out restoration)

The last three visions deal with the reasons why the exile took place in the first place.
Yet it also warns, should Israel again walk independent of the Holy Spirit, and fall into apostacy again, history would repeat.

It's not by might nor by power but by God's Spirit.

At the heart of these visions are visions four and five. God enables Zerubbabel to build the temple and cleanses the high priest Joshua to serve in this sanctuary. We must experience His forgiveness and cleansing, and be empowering through the Holy Spirit. Then we can be sanctified and gradually be transformed into His image, and find the peace He alone offers.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195486
02/19/23 11:19 PM
02/19/23 11:19 PM
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This is being copied and printed and put in the front of Zachariah in my most used Bibles. Excellent!!!

Lately, I have been increasingly affected by the book of Zachariah. What first opened my eyes to the richness of this book, in a special way, was when I read Dr. Sigve Tonstad's commentary pm Revelation, and it was pointed out that Revelation 1:7 is a direct quote and a telling us to study Zechariah 12: 10-13:2a. This has been an overwhelming passage.

I had read into Revelation 1:7 the tears of the lost. Those who will be raised to see the second coming where they cry "He is the son of God, He is the Messiah" from Jesus' worst enemies, as well as the tears of the rest of the lost.

But John was telling us to read this passage in Zachariah, which tells us, and you can see it in the words Joh uses before and after this quote, these are the tears of being overwhelmed by the amazingness of grace, that me, despite my past, has been forgiven and changed and that me, even me, He makes his kingdom and priests. When we realize this we are going to be so overwhelmed that we will cry like we never cried before. All the tears of sorrow and pain, loosing those dear to us like how Israel lost King Joachim, and even the pain of loosing a child, all our tears of pain will have to surrender to the tears of overwhelming joy when we see Jesus. Zachariah tells us and John places this at the second coming that we are going to cry like we never cried before, but these overwhelming tears are not tears of hurt, but the tears of how Jesus can heal me, even me.

Yes, there are the tears of the lost. But they are not what's being described in Revelation 1:7.

Do you have this? The anchor Bible on Haggai and the first half of Zachariah has been written by two of my spiritual heroes, Eric and Carol Meyers. I have been looking in this commentary here and there, but not yet a reading through. Oh, I'm going to also place a copy of your above post in this commentary!

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195491
02/20/23 02:31 PM
02/20/23 02:31 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Thanks Kevin,
Yes, too often we see only judgment in the prophecies, but they contain so many revelations of God's grace! We need to see them in the light of God's amazing grace!

THE HORSES:

Both the eighth and the first vision contain horses in four basic colors. (Red, black, speckled, white) Revelation 6 also has four horses in four colors (white, red, black and pale). The best way to understand those visions is to find out what these horses symbolize.

SYMBOLIC MEANING OF THE HORSES
(Read Zechariah 6:5, Revelation 4:5-6, and Revelation 1:20, Zechariah 4:2-6, Isaiah 63:11-13 and Zechariah 10:3)

Zechariah 6:5 on seeing four different colored horses pulling chariots, asked,
?What are these my Lord? The angel responded,
?These are the four spirits of the heavens that go forward from standing before the Lord of all the earth?.
These horses are identified with spirits that stand before the Lord! They are guided by spirits that stand before Him, Who is Lord of all the earth. They receive command to go throughout the whole world.

The problem is that many Bible commentators confuse the spirits with the winds, and then come to the conclusion the horses are only judgments (winds of strife). Yet the spirit and the winds are two completely different things in both Revelation and Zechariah.

Revelation 4:5-6 pictures, seven lamps which are the seven spirits of God. Christ sends the Spirit to the churches when He ascended to heaven (see John 16:7-13.)

In Revelation 1:20 it plainly identifies the seven lamp stands that stand before the throne (which were identified as the seven spirits in 4:6) as the seven churches.

In Zechariah 4:2-6 we again see the seven lamps which represent, not might, not power, (they are not winds of strife) they represent the Holy Spirit. And again it is in reference to building up the people of God and their worship of the true God.

The conclusion shows that the horses represent God's people who are to be guided by the Holy Spirit.
This answers the question as to what the horses represent which arises in both Revelation 6 and in Zechariah.
Isaiah 63:13 and Zechariah 10:3 confirm the conclusion arrived at above. The horse is symbolic of the church of God! Jesus has made them as His goodly horse. Their guidance coming from the Spirit of Jehovah.

Zech 10:3 for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle.
Isaiah 63:13 who led them through the depths (the Red Sea)? Like a horse in the open desert, they did not stumble;
Habak. 3:15 You walked through the sea with Your horses, Through the heap of great waters.

Horses are symbolic of God's people, the church, led by the Holy Spirit.

These horses change color from white to red to black to pale or speckled. From purity to pollution from sin, in direct consequences with their relationship, or lack of a relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Who are the riders? Probably the "shepherds". The leaders of the flock, priests, kings, etc. Zechariah 10:3 includes, "My anger is kindled against the shepherds, And I will punish the male goats; For the Lord of hosts has visited His flock, the house of Judah, And has made them like His goodly horse in battle".

These horses are commission to go throughout the whole world! Jesus Christ in Matt 28:19, commissioned His church to preach the good news to the whole world. to every nation, sharing the message of salvation that is offered for everyone who comes to Jesus. And yes, first they must have the power of the Holy Spirit, for it is not with their own might or power, but by the Holy Spirit.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195496
02/21/23 07:03 PM
02/21/23 07:03 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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The eighth vision, Zechariah 6

1 And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.

2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;

3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.

4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?

5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.

6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.

7 And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.

8 Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.


There are many different interpretations out there, all having some connection with a scripture somewhere in the Bible. It just shows this prophecy is not easy to understand.

We do know however that four chariots were coming forth from between the two bronze mountains; and each chariot is drawn by a team of a specified color of horses.
? One has red horses, which is never mentioned again in the vision.
? One has black horses which later goes north.
? One has white horses which also goes north.
? One has strong speckled horses which goes to the south and the whole world.

CHARIOTS.

Four chariots were seen in this vision. Vehicles are made to hold and carry something. Chariots especially tend to carry soldiers swiftly, and usually carry them into battle.

Zechariah asks what these horses and chariots mean. ?The angel replied to me, ?These are the four spirits of heaven, going forth after standing before the Lord of all the earth,?

Zechariah is told what he needs to know here and that is that these are ?the four spirits? that stand before the Lord!

In our last study, it was shown that the horses represent God's people who are directed by the Holy Spirit.

A possible series of connections for the chariots are Ezekiel 1 and 10, The four chariot like living creatures with their wheels, carrying the throne of Christ. Revelation 6 and the four living creatures explaining each of the four horses. Revelation 4, these four living creatures stand before the Lord!



Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195502
02/24/23 11:40 PM
02/24/23 11:40 PM
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TheophilusOne  Offline
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Walter Veith has done a fantastic study of Zechariah.
Here is Part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4glfJKATtQ

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195504
02/25/23 04:44 AM
02/25/23 04:44 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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There's lots of good information in that video. Thanksl.

I would like us to study Zechariah vision by vision.

THE FIRST VISION
Quote
Zechariah
1:8 I saw by night and behold a man riding on a red horse, and it stood among the myrtle trees in the hollow and behind him were horses red, sorrel, and white.
1:9 I said, My lord, what are these? So the angel who talked with me said to me. I will show you what they are
1:10 And the man who stood among the myrtle trees and answered and said,
These are the ones whom the LORD has sent to walk to and fro throughout the earth
1:11 So they answered the Angel of the LORD, who stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro throughout the earth and behold all the earth is resting quietly.
1:12 Then the Angel of the LORD answered and said, ?O LORD of hosts, how long will You not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which You were angry these seventy years.
1:13 And the LORD answered the angel who talked to me, with good and comforting words.
1:14 So the angel who spoke with me said to me. Proclaim saying, Thus says the LORD of hosts. ?I am zealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with great zeal.
1:15 I am exceedingly angry with the nations at ease. For I was a little angry. And they helped, but with evil intent.
1:16 T
Thus says the LORD I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy, My house shall be built in it. And a surveyor?s line shall be stretched out over Jerusalem
1:17 Again proclaim saying, ?Thus says the LORD of hosts, My cities shall again spread out through prosperity. The LORD will again comfort Zion, and will again choose Jerusalem


How many characters do we see?
1.Zechariah the prophet
2. A man on a red horse. Most likely the LORD mentioned repeatedly in the vision. The word LORD is capitalized signifying it is the name of God. The pre-incarnate Jesus.
3. The angel that spoke to Zechariah


We see a MAN on a RED HORSE among Myrtle trees.
Remember, Jerusalem was still largely in ruins, the memory of their beloved city was painfully etched in their memory. Where were all the promises from the former prophets about being a people specially blessed by God. In their frustrations of trying to rebuild and being pushed down every time, it seemed they would never again be a nation.

So, here we see Jesus on a red horse symbolizing the blood shed before and during their exile, and He is standing amongst the Myrtle trees.
In Nehemiah 8:15 people were encouraged to get branches from the evergreen myrtle trees, during the Feast of Tabernacles for making booths; and in Isaiah 41:19 and 55:13 they are included in a description of messianic kingdom blessing.
It was symbolic of restoration and once again coming into favor with God.
Zech. 1:16 I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy, my house will be rebuilt.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195506
02/25/23 10:23 PM
02/25/23 10:23 PM
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TruthinTypes  Offline
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Interesting thoughts! I too have been studying these visions of Zechariah. For me it starts back in Ezra 5:1-2. It was because of both Haggai and Zechariah's prophesying that they went back to work in the rebuilding of the temple of God.

In studying Ezra and Nehemiah I have found that there were three definite and distinct steps involved in the rebuilding of the temple and Jerusalem:
1. The laying of the foundation.
2. The building of the temple.
3. The repairing/rebuilding of the wall.

I have looked at this as a type, and as such there is a key that has helped me to see it that way. It is the third step that gives the context to our time. Daniel tells us in Dan. 9:26 that the wall would be built in troublous times. The wall is the law, and the breach in the wall is the Sabbath truth. (Isaiah 58:12-13) It was literally rebuilt in troublous times, and was troubled by three distinct people, Sanballat, Tobiah, and Geshem. That can also bring it down to our time when the church repairs the Sabbath breach in the Sunday law time period. They will also be troubled by three entities--the beast, the dragon, and the false prophet.

So the three steps, laying the foundation, building the temple, and repairing the wall, have their application in our time. Our prophetic foundation was securely laid by the Millerites. The next phase should have been the building of the temple. We are the temple. In other words, we should have gone on to perfection of character, but went into Laodicea instead. This is represented by the Samaritans hindering the work, and by the Jews building their own houses first and worrying about themselves instead of being diligent to build God's temple. These two things (foundation and character) must be in place before we can successfully be used by God to engage in the loud cry and repair the Sabbath breach in the law.

It is interesting to note that the first angel was empowered by the prediction of the fall of the Ottoman empire by Josiah Litch (See GC 334.4-335.1--'Wonderful impetus was given',,) The second angel was empowered by the midnight cry, (See EW 238.1-2), and the third angel was not empowered immediately as it needed time to do its work. It tried to become empowered in 1888 but failed, therefore God's people were left to wander in the wilderness. It failed because the work of character had come to a halt due to prosperity. The first and second angels were based on time, but the third is not, as it did not come into existence until after October 22, 1844. In reviewing these things, it is important to realize that God does not leave His people in the dark concerning their place in history. Prophetic waymarks have simply switched from time to events. In other words, since October 22, 1844, we must ascertain our true position from the stream of events, rather than the stream of time.

These three steps of Ezra/Nehemiah correspond with the Three Angels--first, second, and third, and also the three parts of the Sanctuary--the Courtyard, the Holy Place, and the Most Holy Place. Each one must be taken in their order--No giving the third angels message without having first gone through the first and second. Likewise, no going into the MHP without first passing through the CY and HP.

Anyway, my long winded point I'm wanting to make is that just as it was due to Haggai and Zechariah that the work restarted on building the temple, I believe the same is true for us. There is something special in these two books for us if the Lord will give us the eyes to see, that will cause us to begin in earnest to complete the work of character, that we may truly become the Lord's temple.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195507
02/26/23 05:29 AM
02/26/23 05:29 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Originally Posted by TruthinTypes
There is something special in these two books for us if the Lord will give us the eyes to see, that will cause us to begin in earnest to complete the work of character, that we may truly become the Lord's temple.


Interesting comments, though I probably don't understand your explanation of the three steps, But makes me think, I do see steps in Zechariah's messages that relate to the three angel's messages.

Yes, a person must first experience the everlasting gospel in Christ, and worship the Creator God, giving glory to Him, before they can move on to the second and third angel's message and we can see that in Zechariah's eight parables.
The parable of Joshua the priest shows that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us, not because of any merit on our part, but as a free gift from God. That is a precious and liberating thought, freeing us from condemnation to serve in righteousness. The enemy of God and man is not willing that this truth should be clearly presented; Then like Zerubbabel and Joshua, believing that God for Christ's sake has forgiven our sins, press on through the power of the Holy Spirit, to fight the good fight of faith and grow in grace, building the living temple.

Only then can we move on to the second angel's message, and send the symbolic woman (counterfeit religion) babylon in the ephod basket with the lid on it, back to Babylon and call people out of Babylon.

The third angel's message fits with the 7th message, commandment breakers (who don't have strength because they missed the first two messages) will face the results of their sins.

But that's getting ahead of the parable by parable study -- yet does give thoughts to ponder.


Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195508
02/26/23 07:18 PM
02/26/23 07:18 PM
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TruthinTypes  Offline
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I'll try and clarify. I don't want to get us off track, but for me to understand the visions of Zechariah, I need some kind of context that is relevant to me in my time. Please bear with my detour into the three angels as I believe they are tied in to the understanding of Zechariah. In other words, it is the literal steps that were taken in the rebuilding of Jerusalem that give me the context to understand Haggai and Zechariah. These three literal steps--laying the foundation, building the temple, and rebuilding the wall--also have a spiritual application that make it relevant for me.

From my own study, I have concluded that a summary of all three angels are contained in the first angels message--Fear God, Give glory to Him, for the Hour of his Judgment is come. These three things represent the work of each angel, which also corresponds with the work and experience of each part of the sanctuary. They represent the work that must occur in the believers heart, which in turn must be taken in their order. This also give us a way to test our experience to see if it is correct or not. These three angels messages will not be given from theory, but whoever gives them will have become the messages themselves.

Fear God, Give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come, lines up with John 16:8--Sin, Righteousness, Judgment; with Daniel 12:10--Purified, made White, and Tried; with John 14:6--The Way, the Truth, and the Life; with the Laodicean message of Revelation 3:18--Buy Gold, White Raiment, and Eyesalve; and also with Ecclesiastes 12:13-14--Let us now hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God (First Angel) and keep his commandments (Second Angel) for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment (Third Angel), with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

When I began to look at these, it was the third step in each that stood out to me, and helped me to make the connection--Hour of his Judgment/Judgment/Tried(as in court)/the Life(as opposed to death)/Eyesalve(instead of blindness)/and then Judgment again in Ecclesiastes.

That the third angel is judgment, is found in Early Writings p.118.1--"I then saw the third angel. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work. Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the tares, and seal, or bind, the wheat for the heavenly garner. These things should engross the whole mind, the whole attention.'"

1st Angel/CY 2nd Angel/HP 3rd Angel/MHP

Fear God Give glory Hour of Judgment Rev. 14:7
Sin Righteousness Judgment John 16:8
Purified Made White Tried Dan. 12:10
The Way The Truth The Life John 14:6
Buy Gold White Raiment Eyesalve Rev. 3:18
Fear God Keep commandments Judgment Eccl. 12:13-14

In each case, the first two prepare for the survival of the third.


For more clarification we could also add:

Physical Mental Spiritual
Justification Sanctification Glorification

A simple way for me to understand the sanctuary is to realize that sin goes in, and righteousness comes out.

It is in the courtyard that our sin is dealt with--the slaying of the lamb, the laver, etc. It is in the holy place that we are instructed in righteousness--the seven candlesticks, the oil, shewbread, etc. It is in the most holy place that mercy and judgment are blended--but still a place of judgment, as the law is contained in the ark. The law is the basis for the judgment.

The three angels are identical with the courtyard and the two compartments of the sanctuary, and points the way into the heavenly sanctuary. (EW 259-261) There is no longer a literal tabernacle/temple on earth that illustrates the work of the heavenly sanctuary, and has been replaced by these three angels. The tabernacle with its sacrificial services were based on the outward compliance to the law and was the old covenant--the letter of the law. The three angels are based on the same law but they write them in our hearts as the new covenant--the spirit of the law.


To keep this on track and in perspective, it was because of the failure of the Jews to complete the second step (the building of the temple) that the messages of Haggai and Zechariah were given. These messages gave the necessary reproof and encouragement that caused them to complete the temple. There was no ark in this temple, as it was to be filled with the presence of Christ Himself, in person. The same is true in our time as we have failed to complete the temple so that it can be Christ in us the hope of glory--the law having been written in our hearts.

The visions of Zechariah should be studied with the message of Haggai, as it was the combination of the two that caused them to complete the work.

Anyway, that is based on my own personal study, and I hope it all makes some kind of sense.

I have looked at several forums, and it is nice to see one where people are interested to actually engage in study. I have appreciated the comments.


Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195509
02/26/23 07:29 PM
02/26/23 07:29 PM
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I'm afraid that the list of those texts did not come out like I hoped they would. I laid them out as a chart, showing the work of each angel and the work of each apartment of the sanctuary.
Not sure how to do that here.

If you line them up under each text you could see better how they work.. Sorry about that.

The 1st Angel--Fear God/Sin/Purified/The Way/Buy Gold/Fear God
The 2nd Angel--Give Glory/Righteousness/Made White/The Truth/White Raiment/Keep Commandments
The 3rd Angel--Hour of Judgment/Judgment/Tried/The Life/Eyesalve/Judgment

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: TruthinTypes] #195510
02/26/23 08:55 PM
02/26/23 08:55 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Thanks for trying to explain. You may want to start a different thread entitled "The Three Steps" or something similar as there are just too many points and texts linked together to think through which for me, at least at this point, don't seem to fit together in their actual context, even though points made seem interesting. For people to discuss and figure out your context it kind of needs it's own thread. To ask the questions and comment on the different points and texts raised would over ride the purpose of this thread which is simply trying to see just what Zechariah is actually saying.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195515
02/27/23 05:59 PM
02/27/23 05:59 PM
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Zechariah 1:8-17
FIRST VISION

1:8 I saw by night and behold a man (Jesus Christ)
riding on a red horse (He is suffering with His people, many of whom were slain, and He Himself will one day be slain to redeem mankind), [/color]
and it stood among the myrtle trees in the hollow (lovely evergreen trees, representing beautiful promises, that will not fail)
and behind him were horses (His people)
red, (some would suffer martyrdom)
sorrel, (some would suffer trials)
and white (purified by the power of Christ).

1:9 I said, My lord, what are these? So the angel who talked with me said to me. I will show you what they are.
1:10 And the man
(Jesus) who stood among the myrtle trees (all the precious promises of God) and answered and said,
These are the ones whom the LORD has sent
(sent out to share the message of salvation) to walk to and fro throughout the earth (to the whole world).
1:11 So they (the different colored horses, God?s people) answered the Angel of the LORD (Jesus), who stood among the myrtle trees (the promises of God), and said, We have walked to and fro throughout the earth and behold all the earth is resting quietly. (There is peace. In the year Zechariah began his ministry, Persia had subdued rebellion in the nations around, and for a brief time there was peace. A respite to allow for the work in Jerusalem to progress)
1:12 Then the Angel (a heavenly messenger of the LORD ) answered and said, "O LORD of hosts (Jesus is the LORD of hosts) how long will You not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which You were angry these seventy years. (The captivity, as predicted by the prophet Jeremiah, had lasted seventy years, due to their sinfulness. Now they were seeking to rebuild but things weren't going well. Is God still angry with them? How long before they can find favor with God again?)

1:13 And the LORD (Jesus) answered the angel who talked to me, with good and comforting words. (Jesus gave the angel a comforting message to give Zechariah, to share with the people)
1:14 So the angel who spoke with me said to me. Proclaim saying, Thus says the LORD of hosts. "I am zealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with great zeal. (Jesus is VERY anxious to re-establish and prosper Jerusalem)
1:15 I am exceedingly angry with the nations at ease. )Jesus is angry with the cruelty of the nations, just because they are at ease, does not mean He is excusing them) For I was a little angry (with Jerusalem). And they (the nations that plagued Jerusalem) helped (that is carried out punishment), but with evil intent ( they did it with motives to glorify and enrich themselves, not to please God).
1:16 Thus says the LORD I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy, My house shall be built in it. (Wonderful promise! Jerusalem will be re-established) And a surveyor's line shall be stretched out over Jerusalem (The measuring of the city was an assurance that He would fulfill to them the promises of His everlasting covenant, yet that covenant has conditions. The measuring rod also has the connotation of measuring, or checking/investigating, to see if the building project is coming along as planned.

:17 Again proclaim saying, "Thus says the LORD of hosts, My cities shall again spread out through prosperity. The LORD will again comfort Zion, and will again choose Jerusalem.

This was the plan. Once re-established in 457 BC, Jerusalem was given 490 years (as prophesied by Daniel in Daniel 9) to prepare to meet the Messiah, God had big plans for them. Jerusalem as the center of the earth could have been fulfilled. God's people failed to meet the conditions, and didn't accept the Messiah Who would free them from sin. Instead they wanted freedom from the Romans.
But the promise contained here, will be fulfilled when the New Jerusalem will be the home of the saved at the end of the millennium. The question now, is, will we be there, cleansed, wearing the white robe of righteousness.





Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195516
02/27/23 06:57 PM
02/27/23 06:57 PM
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Thanks for the advice, will try and figure that out.. : )

I was afraid that I might be getting off track, but was just wanting to make the point that Zechariah should be studied with Haggai, as it was the two of them together that caused the Jews to resume building the temple. I have done this in my own study, and have been blessed. It helps to set the context, as does also Ezra and Nehemiah.

As for your study, here are several quotes that I have gleaned through the years that have been a help to me in my study of Haggai and Zechariah. I will only quote the pertinent part, but will give the references so you can look them up if you so choose.



Zechariah's vision of Joshua and the Angel applies with peculiar force to the experience of God's people in the closing up of the great day of atonement. The remnant church will be brought into great trial and distress. Those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus will feel the ire of the dragon and his hosts. 5T472.2

I entreat of you to read the third and fourth chapters of Zechariah. If these chapters are understood, if they are received, a work will be done for those who are hungering and thirsting for righteousness, a work that means to the church: "Go forward and upward." 6T 296.1

This great roll, twenty cubits in length and ten cubits in breadth was the measurement of the porch of Solomon's temple. In this roll is written the name of the wrongdoer unless he repents of his wrong. The Lord's eye is upon every transaction, and His judgment will come upon those who do wrong. The ninth chapter of Ezekiel should be studied in connection with Ezekiel 2:1-10, and the fifth chapter of Revelation. Lt142-1899.9 She is referencing Zechariah 5:1-4

Just two months after Haggai's last recorded message was delivered, Zechariah had a most encouraging series of visions regarding the work of God in the earth. These messages, written out in the first six chapters of the book of Zechariah, were given in the form of parables and symbols. They came at a time of great uncertainty and anxiety, when it seemed as if the permission granted the Jews to rebuild was to be withdrawn. The future appeared very dark. RH Dec. 26, 1907.7

It has been shown me that the experience recorded in the third chapter of Zechariah is now being acted over, and will continue to be while men, making profession of cleanness, refuse to humble the heart and confess their sins. Lt360-1906.11

The work of which the prophet Zechariah writes is a type of the spiritual restoration to be wrought for Israel before the end of time. Lt42-1912.5 She is referencing Zechariah 8:9-13,7, 8

A flash of light will come to all lost souls. They will see clearly the mystery of godliness, which during their lifetime they despised and hated. And the fallen angels, endowed with higher intelligence than man, will realize what they have done in using their powers to lead human beings to choose deception and falsehood. All who have united with the deceiver, all who have learned his ways and practiced his deceptions, must perish with him. The Lord Jesus looks pityingly upon them and says, "Depart." At that time Zechariah, chapters 3 and 4, will be understood. Ms37-1900.10

In tender compassion, the Lord wrought in a marked manner to save his chosen people from utter spiritual ruin. The prophets Haggai and Zechariah were raised up to meet the crisis. In stirring testimonies these appointed messengers of God revealed to the people the cause of their troubles. Their lack of temporal prosperity was the result of their neglect to consider God's interests first. By honoring God and by showing him due respect and courtesy, through the building of his house, they would have invited his presence and blessing... This history will be repeated. RH, December 5, 1907 par. 10, 14

My attention has been called to the last books of the Old Testament. I was directed to bid the people of God take heed how they hear and what they do. These Scriptures make special reference to the last days, when Bible history will be unfolded. There are brought to our notice those who are not walking in the way of the Lord, but are following deceptive leadings. From the Word, we are to learn the will of God, for the guidance of our own course of action in these last days. Let your minds take in the subject. Read and consider and be instructed. Ms116-1897.1

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: TruthinTypes] #195518
02/28/23 02:39 PM
02/28/23 02:39 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Originally Posted by TruthinTypes
I'm afraid that the list of those texts did not come out like I hoped they would. I laid them out as a chart, showing the work of each angel and the work of each apartment of the sanctuary.
Not sure how to do that here.


If you know how to do HTML, you should be able to have it show the way you want it to show, but you will need to choose the HTML and UBB Code option in your post, which you can now do as I enabled you to choose that option.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195527
03/02/23 04:45 PM
03/02/23 04:45 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Great quotes on the importance of studying this book, especially the two middle parables dealing with the cleansing of Joshua, and empowerment of Zerubbabel to move forward with the work by the Holy Spirit. Will need to study them to see in what context to Zechariah they apply.

We do need to look at those eight parables one by one as to:
1. What would they mean to Israel at the time given? This gives a foundation we need to understand.
2. What are the principles they convey?
3. And lastly, how do they apply to us today?

What I see in the first vision is that Christ is:
1. He is zealous to restore and uplift His people. (To rebuild Jerusalem with its temple, and once again make it His capital)
2. He is standing among the Myrtle Trees (all His blessed promises)
3. He is giving time to Israel (490 years) to work with Him (be His mighty horses) to bring in a glorious literal kingdom that would shine God's mercy out to the whole world.
4. There is a measuring line, to measure the success.
5. From history, we realize it failed to materialize in those 490 years, but it will be completed in the future, with the New Jerusalem. Thus in a dual application it relates to the last generation, but no longer as an earthly city Jerusalem (as long as there is sin in the world that will fail) but the heavenly Jerusalem.
6. Questions that arise? Even though Jerusalem and it's temple was rebuilt why did they fail, why was it destroyed again? How, in spite of human weakness, will the promises finally be fulfilled in the heavenly Jerusalem?

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195529
03/03/23 12:13 AM
03/03/23 12:13 AM
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ZECHARIAH 1:18-21
SECOND VISION
Four Horns, Four Carpenters

Again we need to unscramble the symbols.
In the first vision, we saw Jesus, the Lord of hosts, surrounded by the evergreen myrtle trees, symbolizing all God's promises, and the red, sorrel and white horses symbolizing Christ?s army of human followers (teachers, evangelists, and faithful witnesses). Christ is eager/zealous to re-establish Jerusalem and fulfill the promises.


Now we see FOUR HORNS
1:18 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns.
1:19 And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What [be] these? And he answered me, These [are] the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.


"have scattered" is written in Piel Perfect tense, which describes an intensive action, usually in the past but can also be in the present.
This to me, would suggest the first meaning of these horns, as it pertains to the problem Zechariah and his people were facing, would point to the opposing powers (nations) that had scattered them and were ruining their attempts at rebuilding.
Israel and Judah had been scattered by Assyria and Babylon, and were being plagued by the people already living near Jerusalem, who were doing everything they could to stop their re-establishment.

THERE ARE FOUR CRAFTSMEN
1:20 And the LORD showed me four carpenters.
1:21 Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These [are] the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up [their] horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.
These four craftsmen (the blacksmiths/carpenters) [are/have] come to [fray/terrify] the horns, (Judah?s enemies],
to cast out (throw down, cut off] the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah (which have/seek, to overpowered, scattered, terrorized) to scatter it (its' people].

So, now we see the purpose of the craftsmen. In this vision, they are coming to terrify the horns. Those horns that had been such a terror to Judah ? to God?s people ? they themselves were going to experience terror.
So in the time of Judah it would seem these four craftsmen could be
Cyrus (highly spoken of in the scripture as God's man) who cast out the Babylonians and set the captives free! Then there were three other Persian kings--

Darius I came to the rescue after the Samaritans had persuaded the false Smerdis to issue a decree that building the temple must stop and the Samaritans felt emboldened to greatly damage what had been started. Darius searched the archives and found Cyrus' decree and told those Samaritans not only to stop bothering the Jews, but to supply them materials to build. The temple was rebuilt during Darius time.

Xerxes I (Ahasuerus of the book of Esther) thanks to Queen Esther was able to counter the decree of Haman, a decree sent all over the Persian empire, to exterminate all the Jews. Xerxes had Haman and his cohorts hanged, gave Haman's position to a Jew, then issued a counter decree that the Jews should defend themselves. Thus the Jews were saved.

Artaxerxes in 457 BC gave Ezra the decree that gave Jerusalem self governing power (in the Persian Empire) Also, sent Nehemiah to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem in 444.
Again Israel was being plagued by the Samaritans both by opposition to their rebuilding and then by infiltration causing them to depart from God's ways. The arrival of Ezra and Nehemiah helped set them back on track and Jerusalem was finally re-established.

In spite of seemingly unmountable problems Jerusalem (by the grace of God) was re-established!
They were now set to embark on their 490 years of preparing for the coming of the Messiah!

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195540
03/07/23 12:27 AM
03/07/23 12:27 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Originally Posted by dedication

5. From history, we realize (the glorious picture presented in the first parable) failed to materialize in those 490 years, but it will be completed in the future, with the New Jerusalem. Thus in a dual application it relates to the last generation, but no longer as an earthly city Jerusalem (as long as there is sin in the world that will fail) but the heavenly Jerusalem.
6. Questions that arise? Even though Jerusalem and it's temple was rebuilt why did they fail, why was it destroyed again? How, in spite of human weakness, will the promises finally be fulfilled in the heavenly Jerusalem?


The lessons of history are vital to an understanding of our contemporary situation. Those who refuse to learn from the past will repeat the mistakes of their ancestors. In His Word, the Lord has recorded the history of His chosen people because He wants us to succeed where they failed.

Interestingly, Zechariah was telling the returned Jews, that very thing.
The Jewish nation shouldn't have even been in a position where they had to rebuild their city and temple. It should never have even come to this point, where their city lay in ruins, the temple demolished and the people scattered into exile.
Their present condition was the result of serious failure of their forefathers.

So Zechariah is telling these people
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn unto me, and I will turn unto you, saith the Lord of hosts, be ye not as you fathers, unto whom the former prophets have cried, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; turn now from your evil ways, and from your evil doings; and they did not hear, nor hearkened unto me, saith the Lord. Your fathers, where are they and the prophets, do they live for ever But my words and my statutes which I commanded my servants the prophets, did they not take hold of your fathers and they returned and said, Just like the LORD of hosts thought to do unto us, according to our ways; and according to our doings, so has He dealt with us. Zech. 1:3-6

Zechariah is telling them, the disasters that destroyed the grand temple of Solomon and devastated their city, were not arbitrarily inflicted. God had told them and shown them again and again where the right way was, and where the wrong way was leading, there was "cause and effect". Had they given God their full allegiances and heart worship, following His commandments, they would have been greatly blessed. But if they went after other gods, disregarded God's commandments and accepted the ways of the heathen, God could not give them the blessings, instead they would suffer from their enemies around them.

Which is exactly what happened. Jerusalem and it's temple were destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar's armies. But now in Zechariah's time, the Jewish people were back, God had opened the way for them to come back, and God gave them 490 years to prepare for the coming of the Messiah. He was promising that all the prophecies could be fulfilled if they remembered why their forefathers failed, and if they returned (not just to the land) but into full covenant relationship with God.

The sin of their fathers doomed the nation to exile, and Zechariah warned the people to remember that the same could happen again to them.

And at the end of the 490 years -- we find a sad ending for the nation that did not learn. Once again their city was destroyed and their temple was in utter ruins.
These people weren't what we usually consider "bad people" but they lacked the vital connection with the One Who alone could save and change them.

Now we are standing on the very edge of eternity. The conditions of the world are over ripe, it won't be long now. Are we looking for "that city that has foundations, whose builder and maker is God". (Heb. 11:10}

Yes, God was showing Zechariah the steps to success! We do need to find them, not just in theological terms, but more importantly in our own relationship with our Creator.



Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195541
03/07/23 01:39 AM
03/07/23 01:39 AM
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THIRD VISION
Measuring Rod
Zechariah 2:1-6


1 Then I looked up, and there before me was a man with a measuring line in his hand.
2 I asked, "Where are you going?" He answered me, "To measure Jerusalem, to find out how wide and how long it is."
3 While the angel who was speaking to me was leaving, another angel came to meet him
4 and said to him: "Run, tell that young man, 'Jerusalem will be a city without walls because of the great number of people and animals in it.
5 And I myself will be a wall of fire around it,' declares the Lord, 'and I will be its glory within.'


It is important to measure before, and while one builds. That way everything fits.
True measure is exceedingly important as anyone who has tried to build a house knows.

God had given commandment for Jerusalem to be rebuilt, and the measuring of the city was a symbol that He would give comfort and strength to His afflicted ones. A measuring in scripture, suggests that the object to be measured is now complete, thus the prophecy promises completion. His protecting care, they were assured, would be like ?a wall of fire round about.? Our Heavenly Father, does not leave His faithful builders to struggle alone! What comfort and hope there are in his promises!

During the time of Zechariah, Jerusalem had a rather small population, and the people's ideas of the future were small. Thus we see an angel challenging the first measuring of the city, saying it will become far bigger than the present size. God's plans for Jerusalem were that He would dwell with the people and the city would far overflow it's present location. But no matter how much God wants to dwell with people and make them a holy and prosperous nation, it is of no avail if the people don't want Him to dwell with them. God will not force Himself on them.

Zechariah's third vision predicted future greatness for Israel, which they would achieve by the power of God, IF they would fully return to God and allow HIM to build their nation according to HIS measurements! They were to be a light of truth to the world, and reach out far beyond it's old walls.

Of course if there is a lot of material in the building that has the wrong measurements, the building will be defective. Thus in the end, it's not the physical city primarily that needs to be measured, but the people, the citizens of the city. If they are faithful, the city and it's temple will be a place of holy worship. If they are unfaithful, the buildings are polluted as well and doomed to destruction.

In Letters and Manuscripts Volume 4, Ms 62
Quote
His measure is the very law of God. He puts His law into the least of men's acts and dealings, that learning and living it, they may be elevated, ennobled, and sanctified in heart and affection. To be faithful in the least, even in the mere wheat measure. They shall live and rule among the greatest, to be entrusted with the divine cause, to take the power and grace brought to them through Jesus Christ and by the will of God and thus build up a character after the divine model, preparing for the glory to be revealed.
To love God supremely and his neighbor as himself is the whole duty of man. The spiritual measure is God's measure of the man. Elevated and ennobled through divine grace, he is a true man; but these true men are not appreciated by men unenlightened by the Spirit of God, because men have made false signs, false values and standards, and have let them stand in place of God. God sent a man with a measuring line in his hand to measure Jerusalem in the sight of His delegated prophet....
We do now most need to see persons whose characters and works measure life and things by the exact measurement of God. A righteous life in honest, faithful dealings makes the whole righteous stature and structure.




Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195558
03/13/23 06:20 AM
03/13/23 06:20 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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The sixth and seventh visions have so many connecting thoughts with the third vision, I'd like to look at them briefly.

SIXTH
5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll.
5:2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.
5:3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off [as] on that side according to it.
5:4 I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.


In the third vision we saw a man with a measuring rod. The building was going on, and the man with the measuring rod was setting the standard high --
In this sixth vision, we see there were a lot of things in the building that were NOT up to standard.

Twenty cubits long and 10 cubits wide, were temple measurements.
The temple porch was 20 cubits by 10 cubits (1 kings 6:3)
Many believe the Holy Place was 20 cubits by 10 cubits, the Most Holy being 10 cubits by 10 cubits (15 ft by 15 ft) which would just fit the two large cherubim guarding the ark in Solomon's temple. (see 1 Kings 6:23-27)
The flying scroll is symbolic of God's law -- the two tablets of stone with God's law written upon them. The two "sins" mentioned each represent one of the two tablets; swearing falsely by God's name, breaking the commitment to love and honor God, and thieving, breaking commitment to love our neighbor. The commandments were normally kept in the ark of the covenant, so in the vision that scroll would have come flying out from under the cherubim's watch care, thus it would no longer be under the mercy seat!.


This makes me think of the day of atonement, when the people were to seek cleansing from all their sins, they were to afflict their souls, repent of all their sins.
The priest went into the Most Holy Place with the blood of the innocent goat, and when He was finished with making the atonement, he would come out. Everyone who had not sought cleansing by confessing and repenting their sins, and relying on the slain sacrifice for forgiveness. Were cut off, cast out.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195562
03/14/23 05:24 PM
03/14/23 05:24 PM
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Going back to the third vision we begin to see more parallels between this third vision and sixth and seventh vision.
Many see the sixth and seventh vision as one as they both seem to parallel the third vision.


The sixth vision addresses the need to have all our sins forgiven before probation closes, for the law demands the death of all transgressors who are not covered by the blood of the sacrifice. The seventh sends the sins back upon Babylon. Illustrating the role of the scape goat. (but we'll discuss that a bit later)

First lets look at the rest of the third vision. We already talked about man with the measuring line, and the plan to make Jerusalem great among the nations. That was their mission for the 490 years. But we can also apply that to God's people today. They are now to be the light, reflecting Jesus to the world.

The second part of the third vision sounds very much like the second angel's message!

Zech 2:6 Ho, ho, [listen and come forth], and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.
2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest [with] the daughter of Babylon.
2:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory has he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that touches you touches the apple of his eye.
2:9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.
2:10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.


Compare

Rev. 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, ...
18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.




1. Many of God's people are in Babylon. They are scattered.
2. The urgent call to get out of Babylon, for Babylon is to be punished. Escape the plagues coming upon her, escape her sins.
3. God punishes those who abused His people (the apple of His eye) . Rewards them as they "rewarded" you.
4.The nations were following Babylon.
5. In both cases, God's people are to be empowered to share the truth of God., before calamity strikes the nations.
Everyone will be brought to decision. Establishing their citizenship in either Babylon or the New Jerusalem, God's kingdom, through Jesus Christ. In Zechariah's day they were called to old Jerusalem, but that city is not eternal, we are called to the heavenly Jerusalem, the eternal city of God.

18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195570
03/19/23 01:43 PM
03/19/23 01:43 PM
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ZECHARIAH 2:1-11
Review of the third vision bringing the pieces together more.

Zechariah 2:1-6
Then I looked up, and there before me was a man with a measuring line in his hand.
(God's standard)

2 I asked, "Where are you going?" He answered me, "To measure Jerusalem,
(the citizen's of God's city) to find out how wide and how long it is."(The size of this little newly re-established kingdom)

3 While the angel
(with the measuring line) who was speaking to me was leaving, another messenger (who appears to be Jesus, Himself) came to meet him

4 and said to him: "Run, tell that young man, 'Jerusalem will be a city without walls
(without boundaries limiting it's size) because of the great number of people and animals in it. (though seemingly very small now, God's plan was for it to be exceedingly great)

5 And I myself
(Jesus Himself) will be a wall of fire around it,' declares the Lord, 'and I will be its glory within. (God's plan was to be present within, to dwell with them, and this would enable it to be a holy, prosperous, thriving in goodness and grace, safe kingdom. As long as the people glorified and honored Him, worshipping Him, His glory would be within, for God does not force His presence upon anyone.)

6 Ho, ho,
(listen and come forth), and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: (leave the Babylonian countries) for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, (God's people had been exiled and scattered in these heathen countries) saith the LORD.

2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
(Come out of Babylon, my people that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Rev. 18:4-5)

2:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory has he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: (By scattering His people, God's truth had been carried by faithful one's to these nations, His glory had been sent and heard by these nations, but they had abused His people, though allowed to take them as captives had far exceeding in their mistreatment of them)
for he that touches you touches the apple of his eye.
2:9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.
{God's people are very precious to Him, God will vindicate them, and punish the transgressions of the oppressors)
.
2:10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
(Rejoice in the Lord, oh my people, and again I say rejoice, God desires to dwell with His people, and fill them with goodness, happiness, and truth/ What a glorious reason for rejoicing!)

2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: {The nations around will see and want to be part of this good and glorious kingdom, God's kingdom is to grow because people see it's goodness and long for God's grace) and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee. {Yet this could only happen if they allowed the LORD to dwell in their midst as their Savior and lord.)


As a physical kingdom Judah failed to surrender self to the refining and uplifting grace of God, and when Jesus Himself came "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:11.

Christ had come to earth to reveal the principles of the kingdom of heaven. His character as Saviour and Life-giver was demonstrated in His life, in His teachings, in His miracles, at that point they could still have accepted Him and followed Him as their Lord and Savior, but in their pride the Jews as a nation rejected the One who was life and offering them salvation. How different it would have been had the priests and rulers accepted Him. They wanted a physical kingdom of greatness, but Christ's kingdom was one of character and grace, and the power of the Holy Spirit to reveal the righteousness of God to the nations.

Not all of Israel rejected Christ. There was a remnant that not only fully accepted and believed on Him, but also went forth into all the known world as witnesses of His true kingdom, thus the Christian church was born. But the Christian church in the following decades and centuries, in a large measure followed the failures of the Israelites, and Revelation reveals that only a remnant accept God's commandments and testimony of Jesus and follow the Lamb where ever He leads. These don't look to old Jerusalem, but like Abraham look for the heavenly city whose builder and maker is God.

Quote
(Heb. 11:10 &16) By faith Abraham.... looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God. .... Now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he has prepared for them a city.

Galatians 4:25-26 For this... Jerusalem which now is, is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

And we seek to have written upon our foreheads the ID of the heavenly Kingdom:

Rev. 3:12 "I will write upon him, the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Today, we need to respond to Jesus, who will develop the qualities of His kingdom in our lives, as we surrender to Him; in preparation for the day when he will take us to the glorious kingdom of New Jerusalem.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195640
04/09/23 06:38 PM
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ZECHARIAH 5:5-11
Woman in an Ephah


5:5 Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said to me, Lift up now your eyes, and see what is this that you see going forth.
5:6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goes forth.

An ephah was a common measurement basket or barrel. It is filling up with sin.
In Matt. 23:32 Jesus warns the Pharisees and Scribes who reject and plot to kill messagers of righteousness, that they are filling up the measure of their father, and facing damnation.
He said moreover, This [is] their resemblance through all the earth.
This is what it looks like all through the land, this wickedness filling up the ephah. God?s eye observes how they fill the ephah with sin in their time of probation, filling up their measure of wrath for the day of judgment.
5:7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: A heavy lid was over the opening of the ephah. Guilt is upon the sinner as a weight of lead, confined, bound. and this [is] a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah . A woman, is symbolic of God's people, yet this woman is not a pure woman. She is in apostasy. This is not a symbol of worldlings, but of professed people of God in apostasy, living in sin.
5:8 And he said, This is wickedness.
And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.

The time comes when the tares are gathered together, they will not be allowed to grow among the wheat forever.
But interestingly -- they are not yet destroyed.

5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.
Who are these women -- they have the wings of a stork (an unclean bird) could they be spiritual delusions, the deceptive spirits that go out to deceive the whole world? They lift up the ephah with the apostate professors of God's people between the earth and heaven.

Originally Posted by Ellen White
An apostate church will unite with the powers of earth ...and will seek to compel them to renounce their allegiance to God's law, and yield homage to the papacy. Then will come the times which will try men's souls; .... Then will the gold be separated from the dross, and it will be made apparent who are the godly, who are the loyal and true, and who are the disloyal, the dross and the tinsel. What clouds of chaff will then be borne away by the fan of God! Where now our eyes can discover only rich floors of wheat, will be chaff blown away with the fan of God. Every one who is not centered in Christ will fail to stand the test and ordeal of that day. While those who are clothed with Christ's righteousness will stand firm to truth and duty, those who have trusted in their own righteousness will be ranged under the black banner of the prince of darkness. Then it will be seen whether the choice is for Christ or Belial. {Mar 204.3}



5:10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? Where will they go? When the winds of deception and force blow them away?
5:11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base. Shinar is Babylon. They will join Babylon and seemingly set themselves up there and it will seem to be a profitable choice. BUT

Quote
Revelation 18:2
Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
18:5 But her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.



Last edited by dedication; 04/10/23 08:35 PM.
Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195713
04/23/23 05:45 PM
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The last three visions in this group of Zechariah's visions show Israel's sins and wrong worship styles end in exile and lose. The first visions are promises and plans for Israel if they walk in covenant relationship with God.

But in the heart (in the middle) of this group of visions is the key !
People cannot live up to God's holy standards if they do not have this KEY?

What is the KEY?

4th vision cleansing and forgiveness, priesthood cleansed
5th vision Holy Spirit gives power to Zerubbabel to rebuild


Fourth Vision
Justification Forgiveness and Cleansing
Joshua Given Clean Garments


Zechariah 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Joshua is before the heavenly judgment court. Satan is there saying, "God, that man is mine, you can't claim him, Look at all these sins he's committed! He's one of us."

3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a brand plucked out of the fire? God tells Satan he doesn't have a case, God has chosen to save these people, they are like pieces of wood, scorched by the fire of sin, but God is pulling them out of fires of sin to prepare them to live with Him.

3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
3:4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

At first glance it looks like Satan's accusations were correct. There is no righteousness in Joshua, all his righteousness is like filthy rags. But Christ made provision to deal with that, by His death. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9 He will cloth the repentant sinner with His own righteousness.


3:5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon
his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.

Priests wore mitres that had written on them: "Holiness unto the Lord" . On the head covering a mind in which the thoughts now turn to God and His Holiness and grace.


3:6 And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,
3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

Is Joshua now free to go! Wait, there are "ifs"
If you walk in my ways.
If you keep my charge

3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they [are] men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

We are to listen as well, for God is revealing the greatest mystery of all ages. The branch refers to the coming Messiah. It is His life and death that can change people dressed in their filthy garments, to be clothed in garments of white.

3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone [shall be] seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
3:10 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.


The stone -- the chief corner stone, the Rock of Ages,
seven eyes -- the Lamb of God (Rev. 4:6) with seven symbolic horns and seven symbolic eye.

Yes, sins are forgiven because the Lamb of God, like a Lamb slain, has paid the price.
And notice the linquistic resemblance of 3:10 with Isaiah 65:22-23 God's promises for His people.






Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195767
05/03/23 03:18 PM
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Zechariah 3:1-9
Joshua Given Clean Garments
Christ and the Robe of Righteousness


The message in these verses are the center point in Zechariah's eight visions.
The central hope is in Christ's gift of forgiveness and cleansing!

In an article by Ellen White in the Youth Instructor Oct. 21 1897

Quoting from Revelation she writes:
The Lord Jesus has sent a most solemn message to the Laodicean church.
"...Because you say I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing and don't know that you are wretched and miserable and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel you to buy of me gold tried in the fire...and white raiment, that you may be clothed and that the shame of your nakedness does not appear."

In the counsel of the True Witness, he urges upon his people the necessity of being clothed in the white garment of his righteousness. Every guest accepted for the marriage supper of the Lamb will be arrayed in this spotless robe.

But Satan is determined that those who have been sinners shall not wear this spotless garment, and he is seeking to obtain unlimited power over them.
The controversy over those who have been purchased by the blood of Christ is pictured by the prophet Zechariah. He says:
"And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?"
Joshua represents those who are making a penitent plea at the throne of grace, and Satan stands as their adversary to accuse them before Christ. The prophet continues:
?Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. And he answered and spake unto those who stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
And I said, Let them set a fair miter upon his head. So they set a fair miter upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by. And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying, Thus saith the Lord of Hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by."

The wedding garment is the righteousness of Christ, and represents the character of those who will be accepted as guests for the marriage supper of the Lamb. Those who have transgressed the law, who have committed sin, can find no saving quality in the law which condemns them, but Christ has become the sin-bearer for the whole world.
John says: "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Those who receive Christ as their personal Saviour, yield up their way to his will and his way. They cast their sins upon him, and receive and rejoice in the imputed righteousness of Christ. They know what it means to have a change of raiment. "As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.... And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace." "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him"
(Ellen White in the Youth Instructor Oct. 21 1897)

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195830
05/15/23 08:13 PM
05/15/23 08:13 PM
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3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they [are] men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

We are to listen as well, for God is revealing the greatest mystery of all ages. The branch refers to the coming Messiah. It is His life and death that can change people dressed in their filthy garments, to be clothed in garments of white.

3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone [shall be] seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
3:10 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.


Back in Zachariah's time, it was Joshua who was called to be the priest in God's newly rebuilt temple. All whom God calls to any office need God's grace to make them worthy and able to perform their God given work. And it is God's grace that prepares them for their office.

First step was to cleanse this man. The Lord caused all his sins to be forgiven, and enabled him to walk in newness of life.
God will do the same for His believers by his sanctifying grace.

All through the Old Testament we see promises made to men like David and now Joshua, in which the real promise and fulfillment is seen to be a promises of the Messiah.
David being a shadow of Jesus as our King.
Joshua being a shadow of Jesus as our High Priest.

THE BRANCH
Our whole dependence must rest on Christ, the Branch of righteousness. He is the Branch from which all our fruit must grow. Like John later writes Jesus telling His disciples in John 15, I am the vine (the nourishing branch) you are the (little) branches, that can't do anything except you are connected to the Vine. Yet if connected, drawing you spiritual nourishment, from the Vine you will bring forth much fruit.

THE STONE
The rebuilt temple would have had a "corner stone" or "headstone". Joshua probably watched with great solemnity as this stone was laid.
That One stone, cut out without hands (Daniel 2) upon which the whole new creation of redeemed mankind rests is none other but Messiah Jesus Christ.
All believers, from the beginning, looked forward to the coming of Messiah, in the types and predictions. All believers, after Christ's coming, back to His life, death and resurrection, as the solid rock upon which to rest their faith, hope, and love.
This stone, Joshua would represent in type, for Christ would be the better high priest, in the better heavenly sanctuary.
And this stone, cut out without hands, Daniel the prophet tells us will set up an everlasting kingdom that shall never be destroyed.

SEVEN EYES

Upon the one stone, seven eyes.
Rev 5:6 There stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Christ sends the Holy Spirit to His people, the churches, carrying with Him the fruits and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, convicting people of sins, leading them to the Savior, leading them into all truth.
John 16:13 When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
16:14 He shall glorify me (Jesus): for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.


ENGRAVE THE ENGRAVING

In the Old Testament times, when the priest went in before the Lord, they carried the names of all Israel graven in the precious stones of his breastplate

Christ shall appear for all his chosen, as the high priest before God, with the names of all spiritual Israel graven in the precious stones of his breastplate. By Him sin shall be taken away, both the guilt and the power of it. He will also engrave His law and love upon our hearts.

Joshua's story illustrates Christ's work for His people.
SPIRITUALLY CLEANSED, FORGIVEN, CLOTHED IN WHITE GARMENTS, READY TO WORK FOR THE LORD

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195851
05/26/23 07:17 AM
05/26/23 07:17 AM
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In the middle of Zechariah's eight visions we find the key to salvation.
What is the KEY?

4th vision cleansing and forgiveness, priesthood cleansed -- Justification!
5th vision Holy Spirit gives power to Zerubbabel to rebuild -- Living the Sanctified Life.

Fifth Vision
The Oil of the Holy Spirit
Living the Sanctified Life.


Zechariah
4:1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and awoke me, as a man that is awakened out of his sleep,
4:2 And said unto me, What do you see? And I said, I have looked, and behold I see a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl on the top of it, and his seven lamps are on it, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are on the top of it:
4:3 And two olive trees are standing by it, one on the right side of the bowl, and the other on the left side of it.
4:4 So I asked the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
4:5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said to me, Do you not know what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
4:6 Then he answered me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees on the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side of it?
4:12 And I asked again, and said unto him, What are these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
4:13 And he answered me and said, Do you not know what these are? And I said, No, my lord.
4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


So here we have many symbols:
Two olive trees.
Two olive branches attached to two golden pipes, carrying the golden oil from the olive trees to a big candlestick with seven lamps.

The two olive trees represent two heavenly anointed ones, or messengers from God.
Thus holy oil is emptied, by the holy messengers represented by the two olive trees, into the golden tubes and from thence into the golden bowls which light the lamps.

The golden oil represents the Holy Spirit.
Without the golden oil the lamps will not shine.

The two witnesses or Olive trees, represent the Scriptures of the Old and the New Testament. (The law and the testimony Isaiah 8:20) Both are witnesses to the plan of salvation, as well as to the origin and perpetuity of the law of God. See Revelation 11:3-4, Psalms 119:105.

Scripture was given to humanity by the Holy Spirit and it is He that brings it home to the heart!
2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Spirit.

The lamp stand represents God's people -- God's church. See Revelation 1:20, the lampstand represents the churches, the seven stars (or lights) represent leaders/evangelists/teachers of those churches.


In Zechariah's day. The lampstand represented the returned exiles and the leader was Zerubbabel.
The restoration of the temple and the rebuilding of the nation would be done "not by might nor by power but by My Spirit, says the Lord.

In Jesus parable of the ten virgins -- it was the oil that made the difference of those ready and shining when the bridegroom came, and the lack of the oil that left the other five in darkness.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195893
06/04/23 06:06 AM
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Comments from E.J. Waggoner

Because of its symbolism, the book of Zechariah has been called the apocalypse of the Old Testament. The first series of visions deals primarily with the experiences connected with the rebuilding of the temple, and references are made to the leaders Zerubbabel and Joshua. The promise is made to the former that as his hands have laid the foundation of the temple, ?his hands shall also finish it.? Zechariah 4:9.

In a view of Joshua, the high priest, standing before the angel of the Lord, the gracious pardon of the sinner is graphically illustrated. Joshua is ?clothed with filthy garments,? a symbol of sin. Isaiah 64:6. The adversary, Satan, stands at his right hand to resist the work of grace that God would perform in behalf of the penitent sinner. But Satan is rebuked by ?the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem,? and the divine command is given, ?Take away the filthy garments from him.?
Then to Joshua are addressed the sweet words: ?Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.? (See Zechariah 3:2-4.)

There is a lesson for us in this experience. We are not to fix our attention upon earthly difficulties. It is true that Satan will find numerous instruments through whom he can work to tempt and harass us, but we may always rejoice in the confidence that his seeming triumph is but a hollow one. Christ is the Captain of our salvation, and He never stands aside from our spiritual conflicts, His strength is available to make us more than conquerors, and our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. 2 Corinthians 4:17, 18.

Again, in the fourth chapter Zechariah is shown that, while success depends entirely upon the Spirit of God, abundant provision is made for every one to receive this in its fulness. The prophet was shown a candlestick with seven lamps. There was no need for any of the lamps to become extinguished, because a pipe connected each with olive trees, which poured the oil out of themselves through the pipes into the lamps.

The candlestick with seven lamps stood for God's people. In the earthly sanctuary, the lights were to be kept always burning before the veil, showing that Israel was always in the presence and thought of God.

When John was shown the sanctuary in heaven, and saw the Saviour in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, it was explained to him that the seven candlesticks were the seven churches. Revelation 1:20.

God's people are the light of the world (Matthew 5:14; Philippians 2:15), and it was solely that the light might shine that the temple was now to be re-built. God's ambition for His people is expressed in the words, ?For Zion's sake will I not hold My peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.? Isaiah 62:1.

The two olive trees it was told Zechariah by the angel, were ?the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.? They are referred to again in the eleventh chapter of Revelation as God's two witnesses, . Revelation 11:3, 4. And so also the two olive trees represented here poured out of themselves into the lamps.

We see, therefore, that there were infinite possibilities before the children of Israel at this time. A great work could be done if they would only learn what was the true nature of God's work, and not get the false idea that spiritual receptivity and success rested upon themselves displaying their achievements. . It is evident that many were as yet labouring under this mistake, for they were despising the day of small things. Their thoughts were altogether upon externals. Had a vast army of workmen been at their command, and a splendid structure in course of rapid erection, they would have felt that things were going prosperously, but because these outward indications were lacking, they set down the whole thing as a comparative failure. They did not know how they might work the works of God, and so the instruction was given. ?Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.?

?It is not by might? (or an army of skilled men ) that God effects anything. Therefore when we would attain greater success in God's work, we should not seek for more men, but for more of God's Spirit.

Without God's Spirit, as we have seen, numbers and wealth would have availed Israel nothing, for their enemies were stronger than they in both respects. But with God's Spirit working for them, the more opposition they met, the better they would get on. Everything would work together for their good.

The Lord spoke through His prophet to Zerubbabel, saying, ?Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.? Zechariah 4:7
The difficulties in their way were compared by God Himself to a ?great mountain,? but that great mountain, by the working of God's Spirit would become a plain before Zerubbabel, and all that would be left of it would simply serve for a headstone for the temple, to be brought forth with shoutings of Grace, grace.

Never be afraid of the mountains of difficulty that stand in your path, or sigh for might or power to remove them. God's Spirit is poured into you with an unceasing flow from the Divine reservoir, and by its working the mountain will be brought low. Out of it shall come that which is needed to crown the completed structure of your life. Where the mountain stood will be a plain, and the massive strength and solidity which blocked your path is transferred into your own life, making you an enduring monument of grace.
?Children's Corner. ?Stored with Fire?? The Present Truth 15, 36.
E. J. Waggoner

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #196189
08/09/23 01:36 PM
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Four Chariots
1 I looked up again, and there before me were four chariots coming out from between two mountains?mountains of bronze.
2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;

3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.

4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?

5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.

6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.

7 And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.

8 Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country..?


We have previously discussed the symbolic meaning of horses. The symbolic horses in general are agents of the Lord God, directed by His Spirit. (Zechariah 6:4):

To help us understand what they represent we need to look at what else is said about them.
Their demeanor, state or activity, combined with the color, offer clues for understanding.
For example, in Zechariah One, the horses are restful, patrolling, but peaceful. The horses had gone to and from the ends of the world, on behalf of the Lord, and returned to proclaim there is peace and quiet, (Zechariah 1:8-11). They are NOT engaged in war or turmoil, but signified the peace that a people returned to Lord and His service were to experience.

.However when the same type of horses become active or restless, then war and conflicts on earth are inevitable.

In Zechariah Six, The four horses with their chariots are described as powerful, charging forward, and they are not proclaiming peace or quiet. They were charging forward with power and energy to perform their assignments consistent with their colors.

Zechariah?s eighth vision (in Zechariah 6) consists of two parts. The first part is of the four horse chariots coming from between two bronze mountains. The second part is of the crowning of Joshua, symbolic of the coming reign of ?The BRANCH? in which King and Priest is combined in the Messiah Who builds the ultimate temple (Jesus later refers to Himself as the temple, "destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up,' John 2:19) and He rules on the eternal throne..[quote]6:12 and speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh Jehovah of hosts, saying, Behold, the man whose name is the Branch: and he shall grow up out of his place; and he shall build the temple of Jehovah; 13 even he shall build the temple of Jehovah; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne; and the counsel of peace shall be between them both[quote]

Like all eight visions which pertain both the Israel at the time but in great measure also to the end times, this visions gives us a dual timing for these four chariots with horses to charge forth.
1. Heralding the first coming of the Messiah as a man of sorrows
2. Heralding the second coming of the Messiah as King of kings, and Lord of lords.

So first, let's look at the time between the Jews return from Babylon to the first coming of Christ to Bethlehem.

TWO BRONZE MOUNTAINS and two directions in which the horses charge.

Daniel 11:1-21 speaks much of the king of the north and the king of the south.
Mountains often symbolize kingdoms. So, in this case, there were two mountains or two Kingdoms, which are very similar. They are of the same kind. They stand separately, but from between them came the four chariots of horses.

Again Daniel helps identify these two bronze mountains. Bronze in the image of Daniel chapter two symbolizes the Grecian empire which divided into four divisions, but two, the Ptolemies to the south and the Seleucids to the north were the two prominent divisions, with God's chosen nation, Judea, in the middle.

God placed the restored Jewish nation back in the cross roads, which would be in the middle of this powerful Bronze (Hellenistic) empire. The mission of God's people was to send forth God's Word to the north and to the south. History reveals the kings of the north and south caused continual trouble for the struggling Jewish nation that somehow failed to achieve the purpose and future God longed to give them.
If only they relied upon the Holy Spirit -- "not by might nor by power but by my spirit", then those Bronze mountains would have flattened. "Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it." Zechariah 4:7

As it was their message was mixed.
There was a chariot with white horses -- truth.
But also red (symbolizing blood shed and persecution), black (a polluted, famished message, lacking the life giving vitality) and grizzled and bay (conflicting messages)

Interesting that it was from the north country (Babylonia) that men, that had heard the message, came seeking the "new born king" Jesus, the Prince of peace, at His first coming.

But all these visions have a profound finality in the time of the end.

How will it be before the second coming of Christ?






Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #196220
08/13/23 10:22 PM
08/13/23 10:22 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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We've briefly looked at the colored horses with chariots as they relate to Israel's time between their restoration and coming of the Messiah, but do they have meaning for the time before the second coming of Christ?

Does Daniel 11 and Revelation 6 have information that help us understand these horse chariots?

1 I looked up again, and there before me were four chariots coming out from between two mountains -- mountains of bronze.

TWO MOUNTAINS

Clue references:
* Daniel 2 -- Bronze represents the Grecian Empire
* Daniel11 -- Israel sitting in the middle of two Grecian kings, the king of the south, and the king of the north. Two mountains and Israel sits between them. Till they were all conquered by Rome just before Christ's birth.
* Zechariah 4:7 -- those mountains would have become plains IF Israel had accepted the "not by might nor by power but by the Spirit of the Lord" promise. They would not have stood opposing Israel.


'Two' mountains may mean nothing other than a way to describe a mountain range with an opening for God?s sovereign will to be revealed to the world. Such would definitely describe Israel placed in the middle of the two Bronze (Hellenistic) mountains. They were an opening through which God's grace was to flow out to the world and announce the coming of the Messiah to the world.

Why does Daniel revive the king of the north and south again at the end of time?
Are they the last two mountains of the seven depicted in Rev. 17:9, in which five mountains are fallen, but two are still standing in the last days.
Two formidable mountains obscuring God's true message, with a small opening between them from which God's last message of mercy is to flow to the world?

We realize the last mountain, being the king of the north must refer to that power whose persecution necessitates the deliverance of God's people. This last strong mountain consisting of the united apostate religious power which will be flatten when God delivers His people.

If 'two' describes a mountain range with an opening for God?s sovereign will to be proclaimed, than what is the other mountain (the southern mountain)?

Well, according to one line of teaching it is the "Egyptian side" symbolic of the powerful humanism/socialism, atheism, secular basis of many nations. Following Daniel 11's prophecy, this "southern" mountain will be taken over or flattened by the last (king of the north) mountain in the end, but for now it's still towering above our heads obstructing the message of salvation.

And so, in between these two mountains sits God's church which is to take the three angel's message to the world, announcing that Christ is coming again in the very near future.

The HORSES AND CHARIOTS

We are told that these chariots are sent by God to do a work in the earth. We know the commission in which God sends His church to go unto all the earth with soul-saving truths.

These horses must be people - missionaries, preachers/teachers as well as common people sharing the testimony of Jesus.
God does not send literal horses throughout the earth for literal horses cannot speak.

Since the horses are pulling the carriages, the horses must symbolize leaders, and the chariot holds the body of believers, members. So we can say the horses and chariots represent
Heaven-born messages carried by a Spirit empowered church to the world through that opening between the towering mountains obstructing truth.

Again remember the important message from earlier visions of Zechariah, it's not by might nor by power but by the spirit of the Lord. In His strength "O great mountain... thou shalt become a plain". The message is shouting, Grace, grace unto even those mountains, if they but turn to the Lord in faith.



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