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Cause #197366
02/03/24 10:10 PM
02/03/24 10:10 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
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I've come across Adventists, as I'm sure many here have also, who don't see how a Sunday law could eventually go worldwide. It occurs to me that that is because we have given a superficial reading to the text. But what is the wording?

The U.s. is supposed to be the most powerful country at this time. Is it small wonder that we could put pressure on non Christian nations under the right circumstances? Especially as the dictatorial minded continue to take over.

Revelation 13:11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and
causeth
the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Cause [Re: teresaq] #197368
02/03/24 10:29 PM
02/03/24 10:29 PM
Kevin H  Online Content
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Mrs. White did say that Sunday is not THE test, but would bring the test to the Christian world. Some of our theologians, who are expecting the Sabbath/Sunday issues, are open to the possibility that the test can come in other ways to some other people. THE test is Liberty of Conscience. The test will push a giving up something in your conscience to go along with the system. I believe that what Dr. William Glasser wrote on external control psychology vs, internal control psychology, and what Eli Siegel wrote about Contempt vs, Respect will play big roles in THE Test; including the Sunday issue.

Seventh-day Adventists are born with, and converts receive at baptism an auto correct between our eyes and our brains and our ears and our brains that whenever Mrs. White writes beyond Sunday Laws to the deeper issues that Sunday is just a symptom of; our auto correct automatically changes her deeper statements into nothing more than "Sunday Law" by the time these words move from our eyes or ears to our brain.

We are definitely told that the Sabbath/Sunday issue will bring the test to the Christian world. I remember growing up in a church where there people would say that while Sunday Laws looked like an issue back in Mrs. White's day, but how can it be an issue in our day? These past few years have destroyed all the arguments on how /Sunday Laws could not be an issue and we need to look else where. As I listen to politicians, and the campaign, I feel like we are living in the book "Great Controversy" and in the story "Now" or in Adventist speculation of the future. This is so real.

Re: Cause [Re: teresaq] #197375
02/04/24 07:41 PM
02/04/24 07:41 PM
K
kland  Offline
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The lockdown showed how easily the sunday laws will go worldwide.

Re: Cause [Re: kland] #197376
02/04/24 10:40 PM
02/04/24 10:40 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,984
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Originally Posted by kland
The lockdown showed how easily the sunday laws will go worldwide.


Possibly.

Some of us see a BIG difference in protecting health, especially in vulnerable populations, and the enforcement of Sunday laws. Some form of quarantines have always been in existence changing in practice only as lifestyles have changed. Jesus was all about healing so that has to be my guide


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Cause [Re: teresaq] #197425
02/14/24 12:17 PM
02/14/24 12:17 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Did the lockdown protect health in any population?
In Jesus' day, quarantines were for sick people, not healthy people.

Re: Cause [Re: kland] #197428
02/15/24 12:44 AM
02/15/24 12:44 AM
teresaq  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kland
Did the lockdown protect health in any population?
I guess it all depends on what a person chooses to believe.

As I said, "possibly". And shared that some of us see health and the enforcement of a Sunday law for our material comfort as two different things.
And I still have to go with what Jesus DID. And with what prophecy says as I understand it. What others choose to believe is on them and none of my concern.

Regardless, we haven't long to know one way or the other.


Last edited by teresaq; 02/15/24 12:45 AM.

Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Cause [Re: teresaq] #197431
02/15/24 07:50 AM
02/15/24 07:50 AM
teresaq  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
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Originally Posted by teresaq
The U.s. is supposed to be the most powerful country at this time. Is it small wonder that we could put pressure on non Christian nations under the right circumstances? Especially as the dictatorial minded continue to take over.

Revelation 13:11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and
causeth
the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


Ellen White
Quote
The same masterful mind that plotted against the faithful in ages past is still seeking to rid the earth of those who fear God and obey His law. Satan will excite indignation against the humble minority who conscientiously refuse to accept popular customs and traditions. Men of position and reputation will join with the lawless and the vile to take counsel against the people of God. Wealth, genius, education, will combine to cover them with contempt. Persecuting rulers, ministers, and church members will conspire against them. With voice and pen, by boasts, threats, and ridicule, they will seek to overthrow their faith. By false representations and angry appeals they will stir up the passions of the people. Not having a ?Thus saith the Scriptures? to bring against the advocates of the Bible Sabbath, they will resort to oppressive enactments to supply the lack. To secure popularity and patronage, legislators will yield to the demand for a Sunday law. Those who fear God cannot accept an institution that violates a precept of the Decalogue. On this battlefield comes the last great conflict of the controversy between truth and error. And we are not left in doubt as to the issue. Now, as in the days of Mordecai, the Lord will vindicate His truth and His people.CCh 335.1

It is on the law of God that the last great struggle of the controversy between Christ and His angels and Satan and his angels will come, and it will be decisive for all the world.... Men in responsible positions will not only ignore and despise the Sabbath themselves, but from the sacred desk will urge upon the people the observance of the first day of the week, pleading tradition and custom in behalf of this man-made institution. They will point to calamities on land and sea?to the storms of wind, the floods, the earthquakes, the destruction by fire?as judgments indicating God's displeasure because Sunday is not sacredly observed. These calamities will increase more and more, one disaster will follow close upon the heels of another; and those who make void the law of God will point to the few who are keeping the Sabbath of the fourth commandment as the ones who are bringing wrath upon the world. This falsehood is Satan's device that he may ensnare the unwary.?The Southern Watchman, June 28, 1904.


We are counseled to
Quote
To defy the Sunday laws will but strengthen in their persecution the religious zealots who are seeking to enforce them. Give them no occasion to call you law-breakers. If they are left to rein up men who fear neither God nor man, the reining up will soon lose its novelty for them, and they will see that it is not consistent nor convenient for them to be strict in regard to the observance of Sunday. Keep right on with your missionary work, with your Bibles in your hands, and the enemy will see that he has worsted his own cause. One does not receive the mark of the beast because he shows that he realizes the wisdom of keeping the peace by refraining from work that gives offense, doing at the same time a work of the highest importance.?Testimonies for the Church 9:232.
When we devote Sunday to missionary work, the whip will be taken out of the hands of the arbitrary zealots who would be well pleased to humiliate Seventh-day Adventists. When they see that we employ ourselves on Sunday in visiting the people and opening the Scriptures to them, they will know that is useless for them to try to hinder our work by making Sunday laws.?Testimonies for the Church 9:232, 233.
Sunday can be used for carrying forward various lines of work that will accomplish much for the Lord. On this day open-air meetings and cottage meetings can be held. House-to-house work can be done. Those who write can devote this day to writing their articles. Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. Make these meetings intensely interesting. Sing genuine revival hymns, and speak with power and assurance of the Saviour's love. Speak on temperance and on true religious experience.?Testimonies for the Church 9:233.
Let the teachers in our schools devote Sunday to missionary effort. I was instructed that they would thus be able to defeat the purposes of the enemy. Let the teachers take the students with them to hold meetings for those who know not the truth. Thus they will accomplish much more than they could in any other way.?Testimonies for the Church 9:233.


This has to be state by state at first as we are counseled to move when we are persecuted in one area just as the bible counsels us to do.


And now, while there is still a moment of time we need to be character building! We need more than ever to study the ten commandments to see where we fail. The one easiest to break and most commonly done so without thinking is slandering our fellow being. We have to, HAVE to, ask God if we are rightly repeating what was said, or if we are twisting what was said or done to our benefit. Not just for the battle coming up, but to be fit for heaven, also. I have found for decades the 12 Steps to be essential in character building. No, I do NOT mean to imply that I have arrived, or that I am holy, nor any such nonsense. I do mean to say that practicing the 12 Steps with that essential submission of my mind to the Holy Spirit, the constant questioning if I am telling the truth makes me very conscious of my actions. I become quite irritated with any effort to encourage me to slide over any soul, or heart, searching into some superficial, "Now I'm OK with God" stance. But that's me. Passages like these penetrate my very soul. I know I lack which drives me to my knees.
Quote
At this time a very decided work in character building should be going forward among our people. We are to develop before the world the characteristics of the Saviour. It is impossible to please God without the exercise of genuine, sanctifying faith. We are individually responsible for our faith. True faith is not a faith that will fail under test and trial; it is the gift of God to His people.?The Review and Herald, September 30, 1909.

If ever we needed to manifest kindness and true courtesy, it is now. We may have to plead most earnestly before legislative councils for the right to worship God according to the dictates of conscience. Thus in His providence God has designed that the claims of His law shall be brought before men in positions of highest authority. But as we stand before these men, we are to show no bitterness of feeling. Constantly we are to pray for divine aid. It is God alone who can hold the four winds until His servants shall be sealed in their foreheads.?The Review and Herald, February 11, 1904.


Here I am, God in heaven.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Cause [Re: teresaq] #197453
02/20/24 12:59 PM
02/20/24 12:59 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,445
Midland
World Economic forum plans the next disease.
Expect more restrictions to come. And more non-scientific nonsense.
All for the goal of harming people and authoritarian control.

Re: Cause [Re: teresaq] #197465
02/20/24 08:55 PM
02/20/24 08:55 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
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Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
I will keep my eye on what inspiration in the bible and Ellen White point to.
Quote

They will point to calamities on land and sea
?to the storms of wind,
the floods,
the earthquakes,
the destruction by fire
as judgments indicating God's displeasure because Sunday is not sacredly observed.

These calamities will increase more and more,
one disaster will follow close upon the heels of another;
and those who make void the law of God will point to the few who are keeping the Sabbath of the fourth commandment as the ones who are bringing wrath upon the world. This falsehood is Satan's device that he may ensnare the unwary.?The Southern Watchman, June 28, 1904.

Last edited by teresaq; 02/20/24 08:56 PM.

Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Cause [Re: teresaq] #197468
02/21/24 05:40 PM
02/21/24 05:40 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Supporting Member 2022

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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,504
Canada
Personally, I don't see how any Adventists could still fail to see how quickly a Sunday law could be passed ALL OVER THE WORLD.
After the covid episode, we know just how fast a restrictive law can be passed ALL OVER THE WORLD. They just have to have a "common good" excuse and they can shut down the whole world!!!!

It could happen any day.
Any day now -- it's not dependent on any more calamities. Though calamities will increase.
The earth has to suffer much because the REAL CAUSE why Christ hasn't come yet, is not really addressed by God's people.

What is real cause as to why Christ hasn't come yet?

Because God's people aren't ready. The angels of Rev. 7 are holding back the winds, waiting, waiting, waiting, for enough people (144,000) to fully and completely submit to God, and be firmly settled in trust and faith and obedience to their Creator, Redeemer God! To be sealed.

Re: Cause [Re: teresaq] #197470
02/22/24 04:36 AM
02/22/24 04:36 AM
teresaq  Offline OP
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Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted by teresaq
I've come across Adventists, as I'm sure many here have also, who don't see how a Sunday law could eventually go worldwide. It occurs to me that that is because we have given a superficial reading to the text. But what is the wording?

The U.s. is supposed to be the most powerful country at this time. Is it small wonder that we could put pressure on non Christian nations under the right circumstances? Especially as the dictatorial minded continue to take over.

Revelation 13:11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and
causeth
the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


Causes. According to the passage cause in one instance means to be manipulated, hypnotized, as Ellen White and Jones stated it back in their time.
Quote
Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


According to inspiration people will believe because
Quote

2 Thessalonians 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
We will have no one to blame but ourselves. It's easy to project onto others, but perhaps God would prefer we stay on our knees in humility of heart.

Causes through deceit which is manipulation in many forms.

Then cause as in force:
Quote
Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
First manipulate to acquire willing obedience, then by force for those who will not bow the knee to Satan.

Many will be laid to rest, especially children, which brings up an important issue.
Quote
1 Kings 14: 10Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam ... 12Arise thou therefore, get thee to thine own house: and when thy feet enter into the city, the child shall die. 13And all Israel shall mourn for him, and bury him: for he only of Jeroboam shall come to the grave, because in him there is found some good thing toward the LORD God of Israel in the house of Jeroboam.


Quote
This promise is yours. You may be comforted and trust in the Lord. The Lord has often instructed me that many little ones are to be laid away before the time of trouble. We shall see our children again. We shall meet them and know them in the heavenly courts. Put your trust in the Lord, and be not afraid.?Letter 196, 1899.
Quote
The Lord ?doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.? Lamentations 3:33. ?Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear Him. For He knoweth our frame; He remembereth that we are dust.? Psalm 103:13, 14. He knows our heart, for He reads every secret of the soul. He knows whether or not those for whom petitions are offered would be able to endure the trial and test that would come upon them if they lived. He knows the end from the beginning. Many will be laid away to sleep before the fiery ordeal of the time of trouble shall come upon our world. This is another reason why we should say after our earnest petition; ?Nevertheless not my will, but Thine, be done.? Luke 22:42. Such a petition will never be registered in heaven as a faithless prayer.

The apostle was bidden to write, ?Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them.? Revelation 14:13. From this we can see that all are not to be raised up; and if they are not raised to health they should not be judged as unworthy of eternal life. If Jesus, the world's Redeemer, prayed, ?O My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me,? and added, ?nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou wilt? (Matthew 26:39), how very appropriate it is for finite mortals to make the same surrender to the wisdom and will of God.
It may be hard to believe but increasing disasters has only just begun. We haven't seen anything yet. Many will lose their lives.

In the end only 144,000 for God will be left standing out of the billions today. Only 144,000 who live Ellen White's dream of the narrow road that became more and more narrow till all that was left was a green cord to hole onto. Not something we want to hear from what I see. Easier to believe anything else than that.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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